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 Post subject: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:59 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:53 pm
Posts: 2
OK guys,

I am new to this forum. I am buying my first O/U. I found a Citori manufactured in 1974, per serial number, that looks to be in excellent condition. It's in my price range, but how much life is left in this gun? Am I better of purchasing a newer o/u for less than $1250? I am new to the sport so hopefully I'll be using whatever gun I buy for years and for thousands of rounds. Thank you.

Bernie S.


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 11:34 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 1:41 am
Posts: 21
Older stuff a lot of times is just as good, if not BETTER than the brand new stuff. Over the years with the raising costs of manufacturing company's like to cut corners to save money. I'm not the most knowledgeble about the Citori in particular because I don't own one(oh but I'd love to!), but I'd have no problem buying an old one I'll tell you that! It's up to you, and I am by no means saying that I'm an expert, but if it's in good shape and you like it... I don't see any reason not to.

For example of cost cutting just look up the difference between the Pre-64 Remington 700's and the new ones. Or the new Ruger Blackhawks and Vaquero's versus the old ones, not nearly as tough. And the fact that most Remington's nowadays are made in Japan or Russia, etc. Yuk, give me American made please. I know some Brownings are Japanese made, I don't know about the Citori. Anyway, sorry to ramble. Good luck, just wanted to ad my .02 cents.

PS. welcome to the boards, albeit from another newbie!

Edit: Oh yeah, it's more about how much use and or abuse it's seen... Not how old it is. I shoot a double barrel made in 1917 on a regular basis, so don't let age scare you! Be more wary of signs of neglect, abuse, or excessive wear. A well made gun like a Citori will last a for generations if it's taken care of.


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:38 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:06 am
Posts: 85
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
If the gun is in good condition and the price is right then go for it. I have two Mirokus that fall in that age bracket (BC Miroku is the company that made your Citori), and they are all I use.

Your Citori should still have demi-bloc barrels- some will make wild claims of superiority of the later monobloc system- I won't, but I still like demi-bloc barrels. Just looks neater.


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:02 am 
Shooting Instructor
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:12 pm
Posts: 4159
Location: Artesia, NM
I also would not shy away from a gun of that vintage, provided it's in good condition. However, I would expect a 30+ year old Citori would be priced significantly lower than $1250, more in the $900 range. If you like the gun, I would suggest you try to negotiate the price down a bit. If they won't budge, look at CDNN Investments; you can get a brand-new Citori Featherweight Lightning Grade I in 20 ga., a Belgian produced Winchester 101 12 ga, or a Weatherby/SKB 12 ga for $1199.99. Why pay more for a 34 year old gun?


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 7:44 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:27 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Missouri
Are you sure it's in good shape? External looks can be deceiving and a gun of this age, even a quality gun, could be in need of refurbishing which can become expensive. Check the lever. It should be on center or even better to the right of center. If it is left of center beware. Open and close the barrel. It should snap shut and be good and tight. Hold the barrel towards a light and look down it. It should be bright and shiny with no rust or pitting. If you have friends who are knowledgable about guns, get their oponions. Brownings are great guns. I own four of them with two being Citoris. This is probably a very good gun however, any gun can be used to the point of needing significant repairs and still look good cosmetically.


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:21 am 
*Proud to be a*
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1250 is a pretty high price if it's a plain jane, 30+ year old Citori...


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:26 am 
*Proud to be a*
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I'd go a step farther. If you are willing to spend $1250.00 for the Citori, you can probably find the "Real Thing" a Browning Superposed made in Belgium for not much more. Both guns are over engineered, the Citori because it is copied from the Superposed design and made to be manufactured without much hand fitting, and the Superposed because John Browning designed it. It was his last design and really is a piece of gun making history. Look thru the auction sites, and be sure to check out the Indiana Gun Club site. You will be surprised at how economical a good grade 1 Super can be. You get, at no extra cost, hand engraving on rust blued metalwork and a french walnut stock. Ask in the "I love Browning section for advice. FWIW GJ


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 12:40 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 11:27 pm
Posts: 614
Location: Missouri
If you shop around a little, I think you can find a brand new Citori Lightning for about the same price. There is a Citori Satin Lightning on gunbroker right now with a buy it now price of $1,249.


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:02 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 3:24 pm
Posts: 255
another thing to consider is this gun setup how you want it? How much will you need to spend to get it how you want it? Do you want interchangeable chokes etc that stuff adds up.

And as someone els pointed out check the lever and jsut how tight or loose it feels.


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:07 pm 
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1250 is definitely too much. Agreed that you can get a brand new one for that. I bought a 2004 vintage, unfired Citori Lightning Sporting Clays edition for $1150 back in 05.

but if the price goes down a 1974 Citori is a great gun and will probably last another 30 years.


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 4:40 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 9:53 pm
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What are they asking for it? Gauge, condition, etc. etc. :?

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 Post subject: Re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:31 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 1:52 pm
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Location: Ontario, Canada
BernieS wrote:
Am I better of purchasing a newer o/u for less than $1250?


I am assuming that is the asking price, if it is, IMHO, it is too high.

Personally, for my own use, I find the cost is a bit high and would be concerned about parts.

This 1974 gun is a Citori “Type 1”, parts can be an issue;

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/merchant ... e=C-013-03

A brief history of the Citori’s;

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/merchant ... e=C-013-04

By comparison, I was in a shop in London, Ontario on July 23rd and saw a Citori Grade I Trap 32” Invector for $1,595.00 Canadian. This one was very “low mileage”, this trap version was replaced by the XT but since it is a Type 3 parts are readily available.

I realize you likely don't want a trap gun but this is an example of what a bit of shopping and luck will find base on price, condition and parts availability.

I would have bought that gun if I didn’t already have it’s twin in the safe


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:28 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 10:53 pm
Posts: 2
Thank you guys.

The Citori is for a little less than $900. I am taking all your advises into account and will be checking on the gun again before I put money down and wait for my 10 days specially since this is my first shotgun. I myself use a 34 year old Winchester .22 rifle and last week shot a 70 yr old Mossberg .22 rifle. These guns still shoot incredibly straight.

BernieS


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:54 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:42 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Oregon
I just got a very nice 89 citori for 800. It sat on the shelf at 900 for quite a long time. One thing to look for is whether it has choke tubes or fixed chokes. Someone might know just by the year, but it's a pretty big difference.

Good luck with your search!


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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:41 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 12:53 am
Posts: 2113
Location: Northeast Ohio
Seeing as the fixed choked barrel vs choke tube barrel has been brought up, remember the choke tube barrels have to be made a bit thicker to allow for the threading. Thicker barrels mean heavier gun, which is not so bad if you are shooting high volume as the heavier gun will eat up some of the recoil. A lighter gun is better for upland hunting where shots are relatively few and the gun is carried alot.

Another nice aspect of buying a used Citori in good condition, is that if you bought the gun at a fair price, you will likely never lose money on that gun if and when you resell it.

Pick the gun that's right for you.

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 Post subject: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:10 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 8141
Location: New York
There is nothing wrong with buying a use 1974 Citori. Some people have gun for year in there homes and never shoot them. Just make sure that it is good shape and it will last you a life time and more.
I have a old Browning pump that was my fathers and it must be 70 years old and it still work just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:36 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:20 pm
Posts: 1307
Location: Australia
BernieS wrote:
OK guys,

I am new to this forum. I am buying my first O/U. I found a Citori manufactured in 1974, per serial number, that looks to be in excellent condition. It's in my price range, but how much life is left in this gun? Am I better of purchasing a newer o/u for less than $1250? I am new to the sport so hopefully I'll be using whatever gun I buy for years and for thousands of rounds. Thank you.

Bernie S.


Is there such a creature as a 1974 Citori?

I could be mistaken but I thought that a 74 would be pre citori.


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 Post subject: Re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:42 am 
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Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2003 1:52 pm
Posts: 6063
Location: Ontario, Canada
son of thurlo wrote:
Is there such a creature as a 1974 Citori?


Yes, there is;

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/merchant ... e=C-013-04


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 Post subject: Re: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 7:43 am 
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Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2003 12:30 pm
Posts: 3774
xr250rDude wrote:
Older stuff a lot of times is just as good, if not BETTER than the brand new stuff. Over the years with the raising costs of manufacturing


And the fact that most Remington's nowadays are made in Japan or Russia, etc. Yuk, give me American made please. I know some Brownings are Japanese made, I don't know about the Citori.


Most Remingtons continue to be made in the USA. They import some low priced guns from Russia (SPR/Spartan), as well as some mid-range guns from Italy (Premier), but most of today's Remingtons are still made in America.

I'm not aware of Browning ever sourcing their guns from the USA. Browning's standard production pumps and O/Us are all sourced from Japan (and have been for 30+ years), while their current autoloaders are made in Portugal using Belgian parts. I believe you can still order a Belgian-made Superposed through their custom shop, but the price will run you well into the 5 figures.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Is buying a used 1974 Citori worth it?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 8:40 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
BernieS wrote:
I myself use a 34 year old Winchester .22 rifle and last week shot a 70 yr old Mossberg .22 rifle. These guns still shoot incredibly straight.


My comment on old guns comes from a trapshooter's perspective where the guns are used to shoot 5,000 to 30,000 rounds/year, for years.

If you are shooting that volume and counting on a particular gun, it is not good if you break a firing pin and then have to go on a lengthy search to source one and wait through the process. If you have another gun to shoot, then it may not be as much of a problem.

Old doesn't mean that you can't always get parts, age and the model does. Winchester M12's are old and haven't been made for a while but parts will be available for a long time. This may not be so for a version of a gun that was made for a few years in relatively low numbers.

Old guns will often shoot well, I would not dispute that. I had a 1898 manufacture Marlin 1893 .38-55 that was one of the most accurate traditional lever guns I have seen, when it was 100 years old. It showed no sign of any issues but if it had broken something, I would not have gone into just any shop and obtained parts for it. I sold it not because of concern over parts but due to lack of interest in it.

Old guns will often go 1,000's of rounds without problems, some are in good shape because they spent most of their many decades in a closet, cabinet or safe, not being shot enough to accumulate a high round count, some guns stand a high round count better than others. I have my Dad's A5, made in 1963, its old but has a low round count since it was strictly used for upland game, it will keep a low round count because I honestly don't enjoy shooting it; it will wind up being quite an old gun, in good shape, at this rate.

The question of old guns has a lot of variables, some of which are; how much the person likes the gun, their planned use, what the make/model is, parts (are parts available, condition, not shooting enough to worry, don't care etc.), intial price of the gun....etc. There is no one, easy answer.


As Win M12 commented;

xr250rDude wrote:
And the fact that most Remington's nowadays are made in Japan or Russia, etc.


No Remington guns have been made in Japan, the Spatan line of break action guns and an autoloader are imported from Russia, The recent "Preimer" o/u's are made in Italy, 870's, 1100's & 11-87's are made in Ilion, NY.

xr250rDude wrote:
I know some Brownings are Japanese made, I don't know about the Citori.


Citori's, BT99's, BPS and the Cynergy o/u are all made by B.C, Miroku in Kochi City, Japan. (I really like my BT99 and Citori's, I buy a "Browning" to get a Miroku) There never have been any U.S. made, o/u's branded "Browning" produced for sale.

http://www.clayshootingusa.com/readers/ ... nmaker.pdf

xr250rDude wrote:
give me American made please.


Since the discussion is about an o/u, in currently produced guns, this would limit the choices to the Ruger Red Label or the much higher end stuff like Kolar, pretty much everything else in an o/u comes from overseas.


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