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 Post subject: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 2:18 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:53 am
Posts: 87
What's the difference?

Does it require the Magnum to use 3" shells? (It looks like the barrel takes 2 3/4" and 3" shells on two guns I'm looking at but does it take the Magnum receiver to handle 3" shells?)

Can you tell me about how much an 870 Express Magnum in a 20 gauge weighs?

How many shells will it hold?

Thanks,
Dan




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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:59 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 7:44 pm
Posts: 93
same thing


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 Post subject: Re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:39 am 
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pgmrdan wrote:
What's the difference?

Does it require the Magnum to use 3" shells? (It looks like the barrel takes 2 3/4" and 3" shells on two guns I'm looking at but does it take the Magnum receiver to handle 3" shells? YES !)

Can you tell me about how much an 870 Express Magnum in a 20 gauge weighs? Depends on the barrell length, take a look at the web link.

How many shells will it hold? 4 + 1 (2 3/4")

Thanks,
Dan


This should help too,

http://www.remington.com/products/firea ... xpress.asp

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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:44 am 
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Location: Southern Illinois
They are the same.

All 20 ga Express 870's are "Magnum" receivers whether it says so on the receiver or not. 3" shells are fine in any of them.

All the 12ga Express 870's are either "Magnum" or "Super Magnum" and so again 3" shells are fine.

http://remington.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/r ... _faqid=162


Last edited by erik meade on Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:58 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:53 am
Posts: 87
I don't want to offend anyone but I just gotta ask about the jamming problem I've read about with the newer 870's. True or false? If true, what's the cause?

Thanks,
Dan


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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:05 am 
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Location: Southern Illinois
There do seem to be far too many reports of jamming 870's.

As a percentage of guns sold, I'm not sure how significant the problem is.

In most cases the culprit seems to be a rough chamber. When shooting cheap shells with very thin steel "brass" the shell head expands into the rough walls of the chamber and causes them to stick together.


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 Post subject: Re: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:18 am 
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erik meade wrote:
They are the same.

All 20 ga Express 870's are "Magnum" receivers whether it says so on the receiver or not. 3" shells are fine in any of them.

All the 12ga Express 870's are either "Magnum" or "Super Magnum" and so again 3" shells are fine.

http://remington.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/r ... _faqid=162


True, as long as we are talking about newer 870's, right? (after 1979?)

Guess I was thinking the pgmrdan might be talking about used guns.

Can't go wrong with using the serial number info :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 8:36 am 
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erik meade wrote:
There do seem to be far too many reports of jamming 870's.

As a percentage of guns sold, I'm not sure how significant the problem is.

In most cases the culprit seems to be a rough chamber. When shooting cheap shells with very thin steel "brass" the shell head expands into the rough walls of the chamber and causes them to stick together.



I have never had any problems with my 870's using the barrels that came with the guns from the factory.

However I have had a problem with an extra Remington barrel I bought new.

Any shells with high brass will get stuck in the chamber. I polished it over and over, yet I can only get it to shuck low brass shells. Still working on it...

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Last edited by DeGriz on Tue Aug 12, 2008 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:53 am
Posts: 87
I don't mean to offend anyone so let me know if I'm wrong but right now it's sounding like life is too short to buy a new 870. Yes???


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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 12, 2008 8:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:53 am
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I'll take silence as agreement. 870's are off my list.

Thanks,
Dan


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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:47 am 
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Dan,

You have to do what you are comfortable with. FWIW I think that it is a shame that you will miss out on owning an example of the greatest shotgun ever mass produced...

I have bought only two new Express models in my life (bought dozens of Wingmasters) I didn't have a problem with either of them.

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another over any reliability concerns...

Any new gun can have problems, the 870 has earned a reputation as one of the most reliable guns available. They wouldn't have sold 10 million of them (best selling shotgun in history) if they had "issues". I think that the recent concern over jams needs to be placed against that backdrop. It is particularly noteworthy because it is so surprising... Given the ridiculously large number of guns they sell, I don't think the risk is too great that you would have a problem.

I am not saying Remington should be held to account for letting these jamming guns out the door, but they shouldn't be thrown under the bus either.

If having to send a gun in for repair is too much of a stressor for you, I would recommend buying a used Wingmaster from someone you know...

Just my 2 cents.

Of course are other good guns out there if the 870 doesn't seem right for you. If having no problems is your main concern I would shy away from some of the lower priced imports.


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 Post subject: Re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:21 am 
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pgmrdan wrote:
What's the difference?

Does it require the Magnum to use 3" shells? (It looks like the barrel takes 2 3/4" and 3" shells on two guns I'm looking at but does it take the Magnum receiver to handle 3" shells?)

Can you tell me about how much an 870 Express Magnum in a 20 gauge weighs?

How many shells will it hold?

Thanks,
Dan


All new 870 express guns are Magnums. Some of the early 870 Express guns (20+ years ago) were available in either std or mag.

I owned a 2003 Express, a 2004 Wingmaster, and a total of 7 new Remington produced between 2003-2007. I have been very pleased with each gun, and I have no issues with Remington's quality control. Since their introduction in 1950, over 9,000,000 (!) Model 870s have been produced - so clearly no, life is NOT too short to own a 870.


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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:53 am
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Thanks guys! I was hoping my last post would prompt someone to contradict my statement. Although I don't like the finish on the metal I really like the 870.

According to Jack O'Connor they were introduced in 1948 so they've been produced for 60 years now. O'Connor wrote about how the 870 had been simplified for mass production and is the smoothest, most reliable pump shotgun ever made. (This was from a book he wrote in the '60's so don't shoot the messenger - me!)

I've been shouldering a lot of guns at the chain store gun shop the past 3+ weeks. Everything from a Stevens 94C (break-open single shot, 28" barrel) in 16 gauge, a NEF H&R Pardner (Yuk!), to a very nice, new Beretta double gun, a new Ruger Red Label, and a bunch of new Browning Citori's and BPS's. Nothing fits me better than the $2,000 Beretta and the $250 Remington 870. I'm not buying the Beretta (but I did buy the Stevens for a fun gun).

I would very much like to feel comfortable about buying an 870. The store where I buy gives you 30 days to return a gun for a full refund, no questions asked, so I suppose I should take the leap and if I get a bad one exchange it until I get a good one.


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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:27 am 
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Location: Southern Illinois
You won't get a bad one, but if the store has such a policy then it seems like there is no worry. When you buy the gun buy those cheap shells that come in the 100 round value packs with the crappy thin metal heads. You should know right away if you are going to have any problems...

FWIW the 870 came out in 1950


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 Post subject: Re: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:06 am 
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erik meade wrote:
You won't get a bad one, but if the store has such a policy then it seems like there is no worry. When you buy the gun buy those cheap shells that come in the 100 round value packs with the crappy thin metal heads. You should know right away if you are going to have any problems...

FWIW the 870 came out in 1950


I have to disagree a little with that statement about crappy shells.

If you are going to have an out of the box problem with the barrel chamber, I don't think it will matter much which shells you try.

For me the problem is in the deeper part of the chamber, causing the high and medium brass shell collars to get stuck.
The ultra short based "promo pack" Remingtons work OK...now.

I would feed it a variety of high to low at first just to make sure.

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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:30 am 
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That makes sense.


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 Post subject: Re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:36 am 
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WinM12 wrote:


All new 870 express guns are Magnums. Some of the early 870 Express guns (20+ years ago) were available in either std or mag.


I learn something new all the time. The Express didn't come out until 1987, I had thought that they were pretty much done making the 2 3/4" receivers several years before then? Of course I was 16 at the time and probably was paying more attention to other things than the Remington catalog... :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:53 am
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erik meade wrote:
FWIW the 870 came out in 1950


You're disputing my hero, Jack O'Connor. :D


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 Post subject: Re: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:05 pm 
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pgmrdan wrote:
erik meade wrote:
FWIW the 870 came out in 1950


You're disputing my hero, Jack O'Connor. :D


Even heroes are human...

http://www.remingtonsociety.com/rsa/journals/870

http://www.remington.com/library/histor ... istory.asp

http://www.remington.com/library/histor ... master.asp


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 Post subject: re: 870 Express vs. 870 Express Magnum?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 14, 2008 7:47 am 
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:53 am
Posts: 87
Yeah, I know. He was only human. I've found some other errors in his book too so I'm not too surprised.

His book is still my primary reference for rifles and shotguns. I guess that's why it's entitled Complete Book of Rifles and Shotguns. :)




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