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 Post subject: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:41 am 
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Has anyone heard anything good or bad, or had any experience with the Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl. I have been hunting with a Remington 870 and now looking for a semi-auto for waterfowl hunting. Should I buy the Remington 11-87, look at other semi-autos, or stay with the Remington 870?


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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:45 am 
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I have the special purpose 11-87 supermag and would not reccomend it to anyone! I'd look at the Beretta X-2, SBE II, Browning silver or my personal favorite the winchester SX3. Just take some time and sift through the forums and there is a ton of info on each gun.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 1:29 pm 
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I'm with deke12ga. He listed some of the better 3 1/2" models. Others would be the Browning Gold, Franchi 912 (Dick's Diamond 912), and the Winchester SX2. There are also first Benelli SBE and Beretta Xtrema that can be found as NIB's or clean used ones.


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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 2:27 pm 
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Worc's informative posts led me to the descion of the SX3. I liked the Browning Gold but its not being manufactured anymore and the Silver just doesnt do it for me. The Xtrema 2 is my second choice but I dont fancy the safety in front of the trigger... nothing major but if I'm gonna spend 1,000 bucks I'm gonna get what I want! I had a severe face injury last spring, (softball to the face) and I can't tolerate the recoil from an inertia gun or pump as I also wanted a BPS.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:18 pm 
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Worc's post are ANTI Remington always when he has talked about them and would have you believe they are the worst on the planet. Normally though he don't acknowledge they exist and conveniently disincludes them.

Seriously if looking at the Supermag you need to have clear expectations of it. What is the range you intend to use it for? It is a good gun, but not the best gun. It falls short in some area's. It may or may not have meaning to you? There is some advantages though also.

Advantages include:
1. stupid easy mechanics, but not quite idiot proof since the proof is right here on SGW often.

2. Parts are common though you might never need much of them

3. heavier gun than most tends to be lighter on recoil and it comes with an industry leading recoil pad. That may be the best out there imo.

4. common things like choke tube are available for anyone and everyone for the Rem Chokes system

5.Tough as nails durability*

6.Shoots a wide range of loads*

Disadvantage:

1. Due to it's extra heft some doesn't like to walk with them all day. :roll:

2. Inherent to the design as with any 1100 based autoloader they like to be kept up and cleaned to 100%. :wink: easy to keep up.

3. *out of the box it will cycle a wide range of loads as Remington says it will, but often people demand more. It will/can give you more if you a willing to make adjustments and fine tune it if it already don't. It can be really nice, but all and all Worc's suggestion could be the better of the absolute performers in the game today. :arrow: (I simply can't go into Remington Country without the trusty Remington)

4.* Como finish isn't durable against any sort of bug spray. I wish it said something in the owners manual. Pissed me off so much I sold mine. Wish I hadn't, but it was the principle of it.

5. Synthetic Remington's are shorter LOP as compared to their wood stocked counterparts. Another thing that bothered me. I rather expected to to be the same since it was at the time advertised to be the same, but it wasn't hard to make the necessary mods.

6. No shims to adjust stock fit. The other guys have Incorporated that option into their guns. Remington has not. 100's of thousands guns out their and people somehow got by before. It fits most well enough, but if you want more then maybe look elsewhere.

Conclusion if the gun feels good you you and you plans are to hunt it using hunting loads ranging heaver 2 3/4 on into the 3.5" mags the gun is more than capable and to some to most comfortable doing it. However it falls short if your looking to fine tune the fit and you thought it would make a perfect target gun.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:54 pm 
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Mine wont reliably cycle any 2-3/4 loads. It will jam with 3-1/4dram 1-1/4 oz remington express long range(high brass). It jams with 2-3/4 magnum steel loads. With or without the barrel seal activator. It's just a piece of junk! Thats another downfall IMO. Who wants a gun you have to install parts to shoot one thing then remove to shoot another? Why not just grab it and go anytime? I love my 1100 LT-20. My 1100 slug gun is an absolute tack driver. (cut holes at 50yrd and sub 3" groups at 150 yrds) My buddies 11-87 premier 3" gun is flat out awesome. I can go on and on even about the new "Sportsman" economy guns and how good they are. But the fact remains the 11-87 supermag is terrible. The store where I bought mine wont oder a new one if you wanted it and they sent all the ones the hand't sold back to remington. 2 of the biggest gun stores in SE Virginia are like that.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:53 pm 
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Remington 11-87.... Seems like one of those love-hate guns. I for one am on the hate side. I have seen them jam so many times in the hands of there owners. Last year in erie a guy had one. Nice flock of Cans came down and his gun only fired on shot and jammed the next two. If my gun did that while cans were cupping in i might have to throw it in the water.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 7:06 pm 
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MosOak,
Why is your taste drifting away from your 870. You have one of the most reliable, best handling duck guns ever made. Is this just a whim, or is there a problem with the 870?


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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:09 pm 
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Deke if it were an older wood stocked one you call junk I would've bought it off you. A person shouldn't have a gun they hate. But I just found my old M1A national match I bought new years ago and sold a few years back at the gun store. Well the $800 I had was the down payment. No mater how much I love 11-87s of all kinds, the M1A was a tack driving machine I shouldn't have ever sold in the first place. I couldn't let it get away again. :idea: Instead of complaining about it maybe try solving the issues it has...

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 Post subject: Re: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:31 pm 
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gooserslan wrote:
Remington 11-87.... Seems like one of those love-hate guns. I for one am on the hate side. I have seen them jam so many times in the hands of there owners. Last year in erie a guy had one. Nice flock of Cans came down and his gun only fired on shot and jammed the next two. If my gun did that while cans were cupping in i might have to throw it in the water.


Man, I love the regular 11-87. I've been shooting them since they first came out, and I've never had any problems or concerns. That said, I've never used the 11-87 SuperMag...and rarely have I heard anything good about them. Why? How can there be so much difference between the regular 11-87, which I consider to be a really good shotgun, and the 11-87 SuperMag, which I hear almost nothing but bad stuff about?
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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:56 pm 
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01lariat wrote:

Quote:
Worc's post are ANTI Remington always when he has talked about them and would have you believe they are the worst on the planet. Normally though he don't acknowledge they exist and conveniently disincludes them.


My posts are really anti models that weigh too much, balance poorly, have flimsy stamped parts with low quality, needs to be cleaned all the time, snaps those cheap parts, does not cycle light loads as well as other models in it’s class, and lacks features other models have. For being anti Remington it’s pretty ironic that I have more than one Remington in my own safe and I often use and recommend Remington shot shells. I will say that the Spartan model seems to be reliable and a decent gun for the money.

I intentionally leave out the Remington semi autos in my recommendations. I don’t recommend any model/s that I would not shoot and own myself. I can also say that I have shot the models that I don’t recommend and it's based off my first hand experience. That would include in field use and at the range with more than one of the same model.
It’s not my fault you like a model that I find inadequate in almost every way. If one were to stop and think. There must be a reason/s that I don’t recommend some models. This would be given the fact that I mostly recommend more than one model/brand for a particular use in my posts. It might be a hard concept for someone to grasp who is insulted that their model of choice is not recommended by everyone or they feel it’s some kind of a trespass on their fond memories.


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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:15 pm 
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Save yourself $400+ for both ammo and gas to go hunting. Get the Remington SPR453 or Baikal MP153 over the Remington 1187 Super Magnum. Trust me on this one, you won't be sorry. I also am a Remington Arms man and have owned several Remington shotguns and rifles over my close to 40-years shooting experience with good success.

Do a simple search above here on both these shotguns and you will find out for yourself.

Best of luck and good shooting.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:53 am 
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People please you make an issue out of a couple parts that are stamped steel. How long has this design been around? How often do you hear or see anyone of these parts break? It is a non issue. Personally I'd rather have the machined from a solid block of steel receiver instead of some aluminum alloy like these others that are mentioned.

If you like the Remington Autos not to fear if it isn't quite like you want out of the box it isn't rocket science to correct any inconsistencies that might hinder the function of the gun. If you are not brand loyal at all any one of them others a good. I'd steer in the direction of the Browning gold/silver Winchester X2/X3. Popular here and seem to be the best bang for the buck.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:50 am 
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Trust me I'm trying to fix the problem. I've sent the gun to remington, taken it to a remington repair shop and even my local shop, still just wont shoot. Just had a son less than a month ago and my wife wrecked her car so all my gun money I had saved is shot. I can't find a gun store that will take my 11-87 on trade (since they can't sell them either) and its just not selling locally. I love the 3" 11-87 but there are superior guns out there for the same price.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:35 pm 
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01lariat wrote:

Quote:
People please you make an issue out of a couple parts that are stamped steel. How long has this design been around? How often do you hear or see anyone of these parts break? It is a non issue. Personally I'd rather have the machined from a solid block of steel receiver instead of some aluminum alloy like these others that are mentioned.


Not all stamped parts are the same. Take the upper slide on my Sig/Sauer P226. It's a stamped part but has a high degree of machining and heat treating. Never have I heard any comments about this part having low quality but, rather praise for it's quality. Cheap stamped parts are just that, cheap. The Remington has more than just a couple of them.

The design has been passed by many years ago.

From my first hand experince parts breakage is not uncommon on this model. Looking around here at SGW, cases can be found without much searching. Here's a parts breakage that you yourself replied on not too long ago

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=148336

I can't say that I have come across any aluminum receivers that were worn out from use. There have been a few models that have had issues. It was from a design problem and not a materials issue. I will say that I have seen at least two Remington steel receivers at SGW that had cracked.


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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:25 am 
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The 1187 Supermag gets a lot of bad press. It is admittedly based on an old design (essentially an updated 1100, which has been around since the Kennedy Administration), but it is a very popular and successful one, too. Your 870 is an even older design, and it is still a very popular and successful gun. 01lariat hit most of the high and low points very well. I won't bore you by repeating his list. Rather, I'll just add my own experience.

My father and I both own one. Mine is a very early example (SN 20XX) from the first production year, while his is a few years younger. Both have been perfectly reliable in the field, even in nasty conditions. Rain, snow, -11 temps, and even after being submerged for 10 minutes in a muddy, silty river then carried for half an hour in below zero temps mine still cycled flawlessly (it took me over an hour to clean all the silt out of it when I got home). The only issue I have with mine is it needs a pretty hot 1-1/8oz target load to cycle properly (my father's will cycle essentially any 1-1/8oz load). Other than that I have no complaints.

After hearing several negative reports online a few years back, I posted a thread on another forum asking people to state EXACTLY what went wrong with their Supermags. Turns out most bad reports were second-hand, with the reporter not able to identify what the problem really was (gun's fault, ammunition's fault, or owner's fault). I strongly suspect that most reported problems can be traced to the same issues EVERY autoloader has from time to time, i.e. poor maintenance or inadequate ammunition. Almost all of the guys who actually owned one and had an issue with the gun reported bent links as the culprit (the link is a wish-bone shaped part that connects the bolt to the action spring). It is my understanding that Remington strengthened the link and this problem has been solved. It is not unusual to see a new design have teething problems (the Browning Gold needed an update to cycle properly, many original Beretta Xtrema's had POI problems, and many of the first Benelli SBE's suffered broken barrel rings, inertia springs, etc...).

In summary, if you want a gun that will approximate the fit, feel, heft, and balance of your 870, then I think you'll love the Supermag. I would suggest a 26" barrel, as it is better balanced than the 28" model. However, if you'd prefer a lighter gun or one that will reliably cycle 1 oz loads, you may need to look at one of the newer alternatives.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 2:06 pm 
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As a Rem fan I will purchasing a 11-87 SM this month on pay day. I have an 1100 12 ga 3" and 870 SM both of which I enjoy shooting.

Due to recent medical changes to my life I am more recoil sensitive now and would like some reduction in the recoil I feel in the lay out blind.

Like Bug Doc said most of the bad press seems second hand or from people that are predisposed against Rems. The nice folks at Kesselring's gun shop let me handle and shoot a 11-87 SM.

Points like my 870 SM if a bit heavier and handles most everything but the lightest loads. For me this is not a problem because I am not shooting skeet with it and prefer an ultralight 1100 20 ga for doves and skeet.

I am buying a much used one but plan on running mine through the local 'smith who happens to be another Reservist over at the SF unit. He does some amazing stuff with the 11-87s used by the local police force. I am going to have him refinish the gun with a Teflon finish like Tef Cote or Dura Coat.

I am buying a used one that's finish is not so great but I am getting it for almost half of the MSRP. I have heard some of the earlier guns the camo finish came off too easy.

I will polish the chamber and replace some of the internals with aftermarket pieces that will increase reliability and reduce Murphy's chances.

If it was not for the great price of this gun I would buy the plain black version and if I really wanted camo have the local guy recoat it. Maybe take a stab at doing it myself again with Dura Coat and the air compressor in the garage.


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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:41 pm 
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So since you choose to ignore it or simply haven't been watching alloy receivers don't corrode, crack, wear or have ever blown apart? :roll: In the relatively short history of alloys used for firearms lets just say, "I'm more comfortable with my machined steel receivers."


Let me point out to everyone, you especially Worc. This thread you called me out on

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=148336

A mag extension was used prior to part failure. It may have contributed to the premature failure.

It is a common part it has been known to fail, but it fails far less than you, "Worc" would make a person believe. Millions of 1100 based guns out there and most never having this one part fail, but it is a wear part that can eventually fail.

Believe it or not no matter how much you deny the value of what this series of firearm has given America spread over its long proud history spanning over 40 years, it will continue to do well despite any hostility you and others like you bare against it.

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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:55 pm 
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01lariat wrote:

Quote:
So since you choose to ignore it or simply haven't been watching alloy receivers don't corrode, crack, wear or have ever blown apart? In the relatively short history of alloys used for firearms lets just say, "I'm more comfortable with my machined steel receivers."


Let me point out to everyone, you especially Worc. This thread you called me out on

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=148336

A mag extension was used prior to part failure. It may have contributed to the premature failure.

It is a common part it has been known to fail, but it fails far less than you, "Worc" would make a person believe. Millions of 1100 based guns out there and most never having this one part fail, but it is a wear part that can eventually fail.

Believe it or not no matter how much you deny the value of what this series of firearm has given America spread over its long proud history spanning over 40 years, it will continue to do well despite any hostility you and others like you bare against it.



I already said that some alloy receivers had issues. I don’t believe that I said that an alloy receiver was impervious to problems. With that said, I still have not seen one fail nor have I heard of one doing so here. One the other hand, two members here have posted about their Remington steel receiver having cracks. Franchi has been using alloy receivers since the forties or some fifteen years before the birth of the 1100.

As far as the linked thread, it only substantiates the contradictions of your claim. It could as well be any of exuberant number of posts here of the same nature.

01lariat wrote:

Quote:
People please you make an issue out of a couple parts that are stamped steel. How often do you hear or see anyone of these parts break? It is a non issue.


Speaking of contradictions.

01lariat wrote:

Quote:
It is a common part it has been known to fail.


There’s no denying the fact that my experience with more than one of these models were plagued with reliability issues and two of them with multiple parts durability problems. From the looks of all the other similar posts, I’m not alone. The reality is I call it like it is based off my experience weather some like it or not.


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 Post subject: re: Remington 11-87 Sportsman Super Mag Waterfowl
PostPosted: Fri Aug 29, 2008 12:03 pm 
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I won an 11-87 premier 2 yrs ago. (3 inch model) Used it a few times and it was a great gun for light loads. Too nice of a gun to drag to the duck hole and I wanted a 3.5 inch gun anyway. Sold it and went to my local gun store for a new gun. They no longer carried the Rem super mag although they would order it but they strongly discouraged me from ordering one because of the large number of problems they had experienced with ones they sold in the past. Ended up buying the Escort 3.5 super mag for $425 out the door and have been extremely pleased. Fires every round I have put through it and has extremely low recoil.


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