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 Post subject: Magtech Shotshell Hulls 410 Bore 2-1/2"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 12:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:41 pm
Posts: 881
Location: Southeast Texas
Anybody reload these brass shells?
If so, what do you use to load them?

I've been wanting to get some and could not find any smokeless powder recipes.

I know there are a couple of other brands of brass 410 shells, but these seem to be the most available.

How do you prime these since they use large pistol primers.

Thanks for any info.

Don2

Ps..I tried the bit about using British 303 brass and fire forming
them to your 410 chamber...But I don't really like them.




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 Post subject: re: Magtech Shotshell Hulls 410 Bore 2-1/2"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 5:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:19 am
Posts: 80
Location: texas
Don2, I have tried the mag-tech brass 410 shells with 12.5 grains of 2400/ 1/2 ounce shot. I used home made over powder cards and wads. They need a .430 over powder card and wad and a .450 over shot card/ circle fly wads site. They use a large pistol primer and take a #4 Rcbs shell holder to use a metallic reloading press to prime.
A much better alternative is to use .444 remington brass and regular .410 wads with a overshot card glued in on top.
I used a 44 special case to cut the 430 wads and a 45 acp to cut the .450 cards out of milk cartons and heavy cardboard.
Internet info says use elmers glue or rubber cement to glue the over shot card in place. But they will not take rough handling without coming loose.


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 Post subject: re: Magtech Shotshell Hulls 410 Bore 2-1/2"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:59 pm
Posts: 384
Location: Montana, U.S.A.
The following is a random collection of my thoughts and pointers on reloading metallic shells of all types including Magtec shells for the 410-bore. Take all with a grain of salt:

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Well, when I reload full length metallic shells for the .410 I usually use a combination of the following components and it would be advisable to obtain a quantity thereof:

~0.430 Nitro Cards
~0.450 Nitro Cards
~0.450 Thin Over Shot Cards
~Downrange Orange 410 Plastic Shot Cup/Wads
~Winchester Blue Box Large Pistol Primers
~209 Primers (various types)
~Allient 2400 Powder

And finally, melt down some cheapo glue sticks in a generous quantity of Electricians Wire pulling lube to yield a paste like substance for sealing the final overshot card. The pulling lube is made up of mainly paraffin wax with a little silicon and teflon and when mixed with the glue stick base makes a strong yet slightly brittle and wax like seal when it dries. I keep mine in a short pint size wide-mouth jam-jar and apply via finger tip.

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I have found Winchester Large Pistol -- the ones in the blue box that say they work for both standard and magnum loads are the best to use for metallic shells with conventional large size metallic cartridge primer pockets. They are just right, not too hot so as to make flaky shotgun powders overheat and drive up pressures yet still hot enough to get the job done without any hang fires or duds.

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I reload basically four different kinds of metallic 410 shells. First are the brass Magtech shells that have a primer pocket on the bottom that is specifically made to use a standard American size/style large pistol primer. Next is homemade brass fire-formed from .303-brit, 444-Marlin, and 9.3x74R rifle cases where I also use the Win. pistol primers which fit okay in the primer pockets designed for large rifle primers. Third up, are the Rocky Mountain Cartridge shells which use standard 209 primers. Last of all, I drill out and reload the Russian mild steel cases from the "Silver Bear" and "Golden Bear" factory loads.

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A concern when loading metallic cases other then Rocky Mountain Cartridge shells (either Magtech brass, homemade fire formed, or Russian reloads) is the fact that the wall thickness on the cases is not as thick as with plastic cases and therefore conventional molded plastic 410 wads aren't a tight fit inside and powder can manage to migrate around the wad and up into the shot over time with handling. To correct this, depending on the internal dimensions of the shell in question, I use either a 0.430 or 0.450 nitro card under the regular plastic wad seated directly over the powder. For Magtech and thick homemade brass from rifle cartridges the 0.430" is oversize enough to make a nice snug seal. For the even thinner walled steel cases the 0.450" ones fill the bill nicely.

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Mixing paste from wire pull lube and glue sticks to make a brittle waxy glue for the overshot cards is not absolutely necessary you can just use straight glue stick on the edges of the overshot card before pressing it into place. Just a little more time consuming to individually apply glue to the edge of each over shot card as apposed to just pressing it into place and then using the finger tip to wipe some wax/glue paste on top around the edge.

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Since exact load data for metallic cartridge 410-bore loads is either non-existent or extremely rare. I usually use the old "universal" load of 13gr. of Allient 2400 powder. This load works with any combination hull, primer, wad, and shot weight between 3/8 and 3/4 oz. in the 410. And is one of those old timer rules of thumb I've picked up over the years. In some cases it will result in a load slightly on the light side but which will still burn correctly with only slightly reduced velocity. Other load data intended for use in plastic shells has been safely and successfully used as well -- The metallic cases are stronger so common practice seems to indicate that this arrangement works out just fine.

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This is how you reload the metallic cases which take pistol primers:

You use the following metallic reloading equipment from your stash:
~ ~ Reloading press
~ ~ Shell holder normally used for .303-brit.
~ ~ Universal deprime only die
~ ~ Lee carbide Factory Crimp Die for 45-ACP
~ ~ Means to seat Large Pistol primers in the brass hull (ram prime, prime on press, hand prime, etc.)
~ ~ Powder scale
~ ~ Reloading powder funnel
~ ~ Pencil, pen, or other similar sized and shaped object.


So this is what you do to reload the little buggers:

~ ~ 1. Deprime the empty cases using the .303-brit shell holder and the deprime die.
~ ~ 2. Take the Lee carbide FCD die and remove both the top adjusting screw and the innner crimping ring and then run the cases through this to size them (still using shell holder).
~ ~ 3. Prime the cases just as you would with a metallic cartridge.
~ ~ 4. Weigh out your powder charge on the scale and charge the cases using the funnel.
~ ~ 5. Insurt the over-sized nitro card and push it down snug over the powder with the back (flat) end of the pen/pencil.
~ ~ 6. Insurt the modern plastic wad and push in tight if needed with pen/pencil in a similar matter.
~ ~ 7. Weigh out shot charge (1/2oz = 218.75gr.) and pore in using funnel.
~ ~ 8. Either roll edge of the over-shot card along top of glue stick and then gently press into place on top of shot. Or press over-shot card into place and then apply paste as a fillet along inside edge of case with finger tip in a swirling motion.
~ ~ 9. Allow hour or so for glue to dry.

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Here is diagram explaining the different sizes of metallic 410 shot shells and how they relate to their plastic brothers. Basically a metallic shell for a given size and load is actually a 1/4" shorter then the equivalent plastic shell and should be loaded accordingly (Magtec 2-1/2" shells are actually 2-1/4" long):

Image

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Also here is a diagram that shows how I drill out the Russian mild steel cases and reload them -- please note how an oversized nitro card is used between the powder and plastic shot wad in the loading sequence:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: re: Magtech Shotshell Hulls 410 Bore 2-1/2"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:02 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:41 pm
Posts: 881
Location: Southeast Texas
savage2400 wrote:
Don2, I have tried the mag-tech brass 410 shells with 12.5 grains of 2400/ 1/2 ounce shot. I used home made over powder cards and wads. They need a .430 over powder card and wad and a .450 over shot card/ circle fly wads site. They use a large <a href="http://www.pistolworld.com">pistol</a> primer and take a #4 Rcbs shell holder to use a metallic reloading press to prime.
A much better alternative is to use .444 remington brass and regular .410 wads with a overshot card glued in on top.
I used a 44 special case to cut the 430 wads and a 45 acp to cut the .450 cards out of milk cartons and heavy cardboard.
Internet info says use elmers glue or rubber cement to glue the over shot card in place. But they will not take rough handling without coming loose.


Thanks very much for your help.
I've got more help here than I have in a long time on this subject....!!!

THANKS
Don2


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 Post subject: re: Magtech Shotshell Hulls 410 Bore 2-1/2"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:24 pm 
Presentation Grade
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Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:41 pm
Posts: 881
Location: Southeast Texas
turbo1889


You went above and beyond the call of duty with the post you sent me...!!!

Thank you very much..!!!

I have been searching the i-net for a while looking for just this kind of info.
Let me add...I DO understand all the precautions in loading this brass shotshell.

I tried the 303 british shell with some info I got, but did not like that it said to remove a certain amount of brass (forgot right now without looking it up ) from the head to allow it to sit flat into the chamber rim area. In doing so, the primer sit up too high out of the pocket. I gave up on that idea.
Also heard the 444 would work with some work on it also?

Did you run into this problem also?

I tried this on a few 303's I had and just did not like the fit in the 410 because of the high primer.
I took a lot of time trying to fit the 303's, making sure it fit into the chamber of the single shot H&R 410 every so often as I worked on it making sure it fit and could close the shotgun without a gap.

I just tried it because I had some 303's handy. I think it would be much easier to just buy them next time :roll:

Thanks again for the detailed info.

Don2


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 Post subject: re: Magtech Shotshell Hulls 410 Bore 2-1/2"
PostPosted: Fri Nov 28, 2008 1:07 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 11:57 am
Posts: 43
Location: Oshkosh WI
I've done some work with the magtech .410 shells. The idea of making or buying larger OP wads is a good one. I get some bloopers with standard wads.

One thing I tried was using a 7 mag FL die with the deprime stem removed to put a nice taper crimp on the shells. The shoulder taper inside the die does the work. It eliminates the need to glue the over shot wads in. I also use a shell holder made for the belted magnums like the 7 mag and 300 M, IIRC it's #5.



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