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 Post subject: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:45 am 
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Was out over the weekend and patterned my shotgun. While the result of the actual pattern seemed to be good, the center location or point of impact seemed to be quite a bit off. All patterns seemed to be centered high and left of the intended target. Thinking that it might possibly be a dominant eye issue or something like that, I had my Dad shoot it as well only to achieve the same result. I changed several chokes and tried many different loads only to find the same result. This leads me to believe that changes to the gun need to be made.

Does anyone have experience with this and an idea of what might be the problem... I am guessing I need to change the shim combination in which case does anyone have knowledge of what the shim combination should be to bring it back to center. The majority of the pattern is appoximately 6 to 8 inches high and about 6 to 8 inches left.

Any help would be much appreciated....




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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:47 am 
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I am shooting a Super Black Eagle 2... sorry, forgot to include that.


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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:12 am 
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First we need to know at what distance you were shooting. The differences get larger at longer distances. (If that was at 13 yards, it would be horrendous! Not nearly as bad at say 40 yards) Matter of fact, out at distance, that is about the way I like mine set for height. I like to always see the bird above the rib when shooting! I don't want to have to "cover" it, ever!

But the left patterning is a problem! Now, is the gun new, right out of the box? (If used and you bought it from a left handed guy, there could be an easy explanation!) (That is, if you are right handed of course.) Were you getting the cheek up tight against the comb?

I believe that they all come set to "cast off" for right handed folks, and that there is only one setting, each way, (left and right), in the shim system. If it was new, and so set, it sounds like maybe you need more cast off than available with it.

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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:18 am 
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Oops, there is also, of course the possibility that the barrel/choke threads are off. Not likely, with that long Crio choke, but still possible. (Or is this an older model, with the old standard Mobil chokes? Shorter chokes there, easier to be off a bit.)

That would be easy to check, if one knew someone with the same gun, and could switch barrels for a pattern or two.

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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 9:21 am 
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I agree...Or U have a bent tube.


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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:07 am 
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Thanks for the response...

The gun is about 3 years old. It has the Crio chokes in it. I was shooting IC / M / Patternmaster and they all produced the same result.

We were shooting at 40 yards. Not that it will matter greatly, but I was shooting Kent Fasteel 3" and 3 1/2" ranging from 4's to BB's.

I would agree with your statement about not worrying to much about the gun shooting high... the side to side is definitely the issue that I need to correct.

Is there a quick and easy way to tell if the barrell might be bent? I would like to rule that out as well...


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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:25 am 
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This is one reason why when I find a gun that shoots straight you have to look long and hard to get rid of it. There are several reasons why they don't shoot straight but sometimes you can put every choke in the world in it with the same results.

Hopefully it is not your barrel. and it could be.

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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2008 2:12 pm 
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My guess is that you and your father are both right handed shooters, shooting a stationary target while standing up. It is quite normal for a right handed shooter to pull left and high at a stationary target. You NEED to check the gun from a rest. This is also where a center bead comes into play....if you don't have a center bead, you need a reference to the barrels center line.

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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 5:16 am 
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You need to test for two different things here-

1- that the gun shoots straight, ie the barrel is OK, and you do that by AIMED shots at a pattern plate. Preferably at a distance which will keep the pattern together, maybe 20 yeards or so. It is unlikely for a Benelli to have a bent barrel. Barrels can be easily straightened by a skilled smith who owns a barrel press.

2- You check stock fit to see where the gun sends the pattern relative to where you point (Not aiming) and for this you do the Churchill test at 16 yards. Every inch deviation at 16 yeards corresponds to 1/16 correction on the stock. The stock shims will take care of that problem.


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 Post subject: Re: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:07 pm 
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Tron wrote:
My guess is that you and your father are both right handed shooters, shooting a stationary target while standing up. It is quite normal for a right handed shooter to pull left and high at a stationary target. You NEED to check the gun from a rest. This is also where a center bead comes into play....if you don't have a center bead, you need a reference to the barrels center line.

Joe

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That is completely incorrect for a shotgun. Bench rest shooting is for rifles with sights. When checking a shotgun for POI vs POA, you need to be standing with the gun mounted on the shoulder in a completely normal position for typical shooting. I recently had 2 shotguns fitted and all shooting is done in normal shooting position. SInce you have no rear sight on a shotgun and you do not AIM a shotgun, you must adjust the stock to make the shotgun shoot where you are looking. Only then can you consistently hit where you are pointing.


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 Post subject: Re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:20 pm 
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TrempMarsh wrote:
...Thinking that it might possibly be a dominant eye issue or something like that, I had my Dad shoot it as well only to achieve the same result.
Any help would be much appreciated....
No two shooters are built alike, nor do they mount a gun the same, so it is not a good test to have someone else shoot your gun for you to see if it impacts to the same point for them as it does for you. My son is the same height as me and the same build, but he mounts my gun differently and therefore the POI is 8" lower for him and 3" to the right. My gun stock fits me and the POI is where I look. But my stock is not correct for him. You definitely need more cast off to correct the left issue. To correct the high POI you need to lower the comb. Sanding the comb on the left and on the top will dial in that stock for you. Then refinish it. Sand 1/16" at a time and watch how the pattern moves towards the dot. If you have shims, you can try adding a shim that is thicker at top and on the left.


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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:00 am 
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A/C Guy, with due respect,I believe that you are 100% wrong on this. The very first step in checking POI is to verify that the barrel is indeed shooting straight. You would be surprised how many high production shotguns do not shoot where "aimed". This can only be done correctly from a rest. Once that it is verified that the barrel is indeed shooting straight, then and only then can you move onto the next step: Gun fit and changing stock dimensions to move POI to the desired area so that the gun is shooting where the shooter is looking. This can take some time.

Joe

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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 02, 2008 9:00 am 
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Sorry, double post.


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 Post subject: re: Benelli Shim question
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2008 12:51 am 
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I patterned my SBEII today with 3" Wingmaster HD #4's and 3.5" Winchester Expert #2 steel. Both loads shot 100% high, regardless of choke. Oh yeah, I was standing up with gun mounted and figure 8 with the beads. Left to right was fine.

I also patterned my M1Super90 with the HD #4's and that pattern was 50/50 regardless of choke.

Maybe I've just discovered why I missed a few extremely close ducks last year with the SBEII. :o



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