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 Post subject: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:34 am 
I want to know what everybodys opinion is on the best 20ga hull for reloading trap/skeet sheels, and why. I'm tired of buying all my 20ga shells, so I'm wanting to build my hull count up. Thanks in advance for all the info you can give me.




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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:09 am 
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My personal choice is the Remington Premier. That is all I load. I shoot 14gr of International Clays in my reloads and with that load I can get 15 loads per hull most times. If I shoot heavier loads using Universal Clays it drops down to about 8 loads per hull.

Also,
If you are shooting a 20ga gun (not a 12ga with sub gauge tubes), the Remington High Velocity and Gun Club shells will reload good as well. They just don't last as long. I mention this because I often see lots of these laying on the ground. If you are shooting a 12ga gun with sub gauge tubes, don't even bother picking these hulls up, however. The brass swells and sticks in the tube. I have had this happen consistantly with both my Chambermates, and Briley tubes.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:44 am 
Todd,
Are you using the same loads in the "gun club" hulls?


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 2:24 am 
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the remington premier is indeed the best hull out there to load. the gun club can use the premier data. best thing about remington. same boiler room. oddly enough, all the 20 ga. guns i shoot are tubesets. i use a mec 9000g, resize all my brass, and i will say that sometimes the empty will not clear the gun, but they extract freely. i have specified the lightest ejector springs in my krieghoffs, and since i do reload, my hulls seldom hit the ground. i would rather load the premier, but when the club gives me target boxes of gun clubs, i smile and take them! you might want to crank the nut on your resizer ring down a couple of clicks, if you are using a mec with a resizer.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:50 am 
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Ftsumm,
Yes, I use the same load in the Gun Club/High Velocity hulls are I do the Premiers. I shoot 14gr of International Clays with a WAA20 wad and Win 209 primer.

John,
My chambermates are fussy when it comes to hulls in the 20ga. I have my resizer set very tight. When I first got my Chambermates I had a problem with even Premier hulls sticking. Tightening my resizer solved the problem. The cheaper hulls don't stick every time, but it happens enough to keep me from loading them. They also don't like Wolf 20ga or Fiocci 20ga very much either (factory ammo, not reloads) and will stick hulls. My dad has 2 different tube sets, one of which does OK with the cheaper hulls in the 20ga, the other is worse than my chambermates when it comes to sticking, the other will do OK if the cheaper hulls have only been reloaded once, but if they have been loaded 2 or 3 times they start to stick regularly.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:26 am 
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todd ks
tubes are indeed fussy. the tubes i have now are briley's, full length fitted tubes, and they are not real fussy. it does seem that the fiocchi and wolf factory's do give problems in a lot of tubes! i load cheap hulls light, and get good service with them in my tubesets, but i have had tubes that were very fussy!


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 12:05 pm 
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My father owns a 3200 with a Perbaugh (sp?) tube set. That set of tubes was the worst I have ever seen. My dad is a machinist. He checked the chambers and found them to be slightly undersized. He was able to go in a turn a few 1000th's out of the chambers which improved the situation greatly, but there is a lot of metal to work with in the Perbaugh tubes.

Do you know if it is the actual chamber diameter or some other factor that causes the sticking problem? As I said, I have never had any problems with sub gauge guns. I was very disappointed when the 20ga Wolf shells did not work out in my Chambermates. I really like Wolf shells in the 12ga.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 1:40 pm 
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The best is the old style AA!

BP

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:32 pm 
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you are so right about the old AA hulls, so wincheater goes and ruins them!


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:40 pm 
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John;

Well, I'm not so sure they just ruined them, they are indeed somewhat different than the old AAs to load. You have to have a shorter wad column and longer free space above the shot and then NOT seat the crimp as deeply as we are used to doing with the old AAs. The new ones will indeed crush. I've loaded quite a few samples of both the old and new and run them over the chronograph with equal results. The new hulls work fine, you can't treat them like the old ones though. I actually have as much or more trouble with the STS hull as anything. The Cheddite, Challanger, old Estate and PMC load as good as anything. Even the Federals load pretty good! I kind of like the Activs too. Not so good with an Auto, but I don't shoot one anyway.

BP

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2004 11:53 pm 
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burnt powder
the reason i said ruined is because the 12 ga "new design" has base wad migration issues. wincheater denies there is a problem. i have seen it, and so have many other people. claytalk has pictures of the problem. beretta has indicated they have replaced numerous barrels because of the base wad sticking in the bore. that is what i mean by ruined. i am sure remington and federal are delighted. they still make true compression formed hulls. even remington's cheapo hull is now compression formed. and i would rather load the fabulous gold medal than any of them!


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:44 pm 
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John;

So, are you suggesting that only the 12 ga AA hull is problematic?? How is it's constrruction any different than the new AA in 20, 28, and .410? I have all of them and really never found any problem whatsoever with the base wad in any of them. I guess I've already been in a discussion about all that though. Just curious about what you have to say about any of the small gauge AA hulls? Are they better or safer or.....?

BP

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You lie to the Government, it's a Felony, they lie to you, it's Politics!


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:28 pm 
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BP,

I never want to shoot with you. I've been having the time of my life picking up the once fired new style AAs that everyone leaves on the ground because of the great Internet "basewad" issue...don't even have to pay for empties anymore. I have the wife shoot with me so the two of us can pick up the empties in half the time.

And then you keep telling people the AAs are great...are you trying to force me into BUYING empties?

Please cease and desist immediately.

Ka6otm


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:10 pm 
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i have not shot or loaded small bore AA "hs" hulls, and probably won't. it is a known issue with wincheater that they have problems with the 12. since the small bores are made the same way, it is logical to assume, that until wincheater says they have the problem fixed, they don't. remember, the small bores are normally loaded to higher pressures than the 12, so the little ones would be more susceptible to basewad migration than the 12, everything being equal. i know that a lot of people have loaded the new hull with no problems, but i am old, not bold, and i will not put a $23k trap gun at risk, or a $19k tube gun. just my .02. go ahead and load them, you won't hurt my feelings. we will have to find something else to argue about!


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 8:42 pm 
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I'm going with the Rems too, might even sell the 1000 once-fired, inspected and washed AA 20 OLD STLYE ONE PIECE (and 400 or so 12 gauge, same vintage) hulls I amassed before Win screwed the pooch with the "Improved" design.

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:42 pm 
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John;

Kinda what I thought, you don't really know for sure!

You are indeed entitled to your opinion, lots of brave men lost thier lives so we, the survivors, could indeed make this kind of decision for ourselves.
Every time I see something refered to as a "known fact" I get skeptical. Last time I heard about a "Know fact" refering to the AA hull it was described as having been made in Korea for WW? I've never seen anything authorative about that either.
I suppose if I had a shotgun that cost as much as the Cadillac my wife drives I mignt be persuaded to shoot something else too? Like my Brother-in-law likes to say, If you can afford to drive that thing what difference does it make to you what gas costs? If you can afford a shotgun or two that expensive, you can shoot any danged thing you like in it as far as I'm conserned, And I don't really care why, I guess you already figured that out.
I guess I'll just keep taking my chances with my cheapo Browning, Rizzini, Franchi, and Berettas, and golly, gee whiz, my model 42s. I'll let you all know first time I get a wad stuck in my barrels, base wad I mean. I sure hope you're wrong!

BP

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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 12:22 am 
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burnt powder
look up claytalk, some penny ante forum, and there are pictures of the problem. during my last session loading a batch of new AA's, i had several, that the shot was almost up to the top of the case. i pulled the components, and checked them. powder, shot weighed right, right wad, huh. i looked inside, and the base wad had moved forward in the case. i thought a couple primed hard on the mec(bottomed out the priming tube spring), but the mec had failed to push the wad back in position. that was enough for me. i shoot cheap hulls once and throw them away, but i have yet to see a cheddite, or fiocchi, or federal game hull have the base wad migration problem. i no longer load any wincheater product. i have no axe to grind, i have used wincheater products for decades, but they have a problem. remember the difference between a liberal and a conservative. the conservative will believe it when he sees it, the liberal will see it when he believes it! i sincerely hope you have no problem with these hulls. i am training director at a very large clay target complex in middle tennessee. we throw a lot of targets, almost 20k today, and no special events or tournament (sunday, march 29). i pick up a lot of brass. i load what i want (we sell gamebore and rem gun club) and give the rest back to the club members. i will admit i keep gold medals and gold nitros. i reluctantly give away even sts's! this is all i have to say on the subject. apparently some folks are going to have to see a bulge in their barrel to believe it. just remember, the gunmaker will not replace the barrel under warranty, and wincheater is not going to admit at this time that they have a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:01 am 
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:shock:
It's one thing if you blow your own gun up, but quite another if it takes some of you, or a buddy, with it!

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Once the lead leaves the muzzle, no amount of prayer, regret, or good intention will alter either it's course or effect.
Lancer6


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 1:34 am 
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John;

I see you are in Nashville! Wish I'd known that a month ago! I was there with my wife for the big Mary Kay Directors meeting at the Big Opryland convention center. I'da come out and shot with you! 'Course, I'da had to mooch a gun. I'll keep your advise in mind as I inspect my hulls before loading them. So far I've seen no first hand evidence of any problem whatever.

I notice you changed/removed your signature line??
:wink:

BP

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You lie to the Government, it's a Felony, they lie to you, it's Politics!


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 Post subject: Re: 20ga hulls
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:49 am 
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burnt powder
the next time you are in nashville, let me know, we will find a gun for you to shoot. as far as the signature line, i have not changed it on purpose, maybe the moderator appreciated my ability to throw the bull, and rewarded me! skeet, trap, sporting, i have a loaner for a fellow gun crank! you will have to make do with a krieghoff, that's all i shoot. you can lock out the safety and selector, and a dummy like me appreciates that. we will make your visit to our complex a memorable one!




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