CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Thu Sep 18, 2014 4:40 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Image



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:48 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:21 am
Posts: 199
Location: Napa, CA
I just received 1500 of the WAA12XW wads. The data for reloading with these wads in printed in the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual, Second Edition. Does anyone have this loading manual? Can you please give me the information on loading these wads in Red AA hulls, the old style? I will be using W209 primers.
Thank you,
Fred


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 5:59 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:24 pm
Posts: 5376
Can't help with the data, as those were before my time, but this might help:

http://tinyurl.com/94n2ec


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:14 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8822
Location: Alvin, Texas
Fred,
Those wads are approx. 35 years old, and maybe older, and were intended for 1-1/4 oz. loads.

Before doing anything else, check to see if they aren't brittle and would simply break up if you tried to use them.

Take one and bend the shot cup petal back against the powder cup. If it snaps off, they are history and will not stand up to being fired in a reload.

Check this and report back.

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:20 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2007 10:21 am
Posts: 199
Location: Napa, CA
The wads are still soft and pliable. They do not break or crack when you bend them.
The bags of wads are marked Handicap. The are exactly the same size as the white WAA12. I do not think they are for 1 1/4 ox loads. That is why I am asking about the loading data from the Second Edtion Lyman book.
Thanks,
Fred


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:31 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 18235
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
napawino wrote:
The wads are still soft and pliable. They do not break or crack when you bend them.
The bags of wads are marked Handicap. The are exactly the same size as the white WAA12. I do not think they are for 1 1/4 ox loads. That is why I am asking about the loading data from the Second Edtion Lyman book.
Thanks,
Fred

I have that book, but it is at my home and I will be away until late Friday. If you send me a PM, click on the pm button below Kate smith at the bottom. Put what you want in the PM, listing the rest of what you would like to use.

_________________
To sign up as a bonus member, click this link.<<<<< LINK

God Bless America<<<< LINK worth clicking


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 6:59 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8822
Location: Alvin, Texas
Fred, I'll have to disagree with you, as I have the Lyman #2, and it only lists 3 loads for those wads. PERIOD! Two of these loads are for 1-1/4 oz. loads using Winchester 540, in AA cases. The other is for using an old obsolete Federal Champion Target load case with Winchester 452 powder.

In the wad section, they do list that wad. However going through the book 12 ga. section, page by page, only those three loads are mentioned.

It certainly would appear that those wads were not intended for 1-1/8 oz. loads, and couldn't have been very popular, since there is almost no data for their use.

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:47 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:14 pm
Posts: 946
Location: Topeka Kansas
from Lymans # 2 ..........

24.0 grs. PB 1 1/8 oz lead shot Win 209 pg 167

27.0 grs. SR 7625 1 1/8 oz lead shot Win 209 pg 168

If I were going to load these, ( I still have three or four bags of them) I would back that powder charge off about 2 grains.

These were a short life span wad that was touted as a 'Handicap' wad but was generally percieved as just another 'Field' wad. Unless someone proves me wrong or otherwise corrects me I think the "Trapper" brand of wad sold by mail order is the same thing or a close clone there of.

_________________
gcbluerock@cox.net

Distributor for Downrange Mfg.

http://www.downrangemfg.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:08 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8822
Location: Alvin, Texas
GC Bluerock,

Have you been drinking or something?????

There is no mention of a WAA12XW wad on either of those pages. You must have a different #2 Lyman's than I have, and I don't think Lyman printed it.


There are loads on pages 167 & 168 using those same powders, and the same amounts, but they are for WAA12R wads, not WAA12XW wads.

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 8:55 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:14 pm
Posts: 946
Location: Topeka Kansas
I dont drink! But maybe I should start???

Image

_________________
gcbluerock@cox.net

Distributor for Downrange Mfg.

http://www.downrangemfg.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:30 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8822
Location: Alvin, Texas
OK GC,
My page 168 is identical to yours, except the third line down shows using a WAA12R wad.

The third line from the bottom reads the same as yours, although I don't know where a Remington SP12 fits in this conversation.

My Scanner/Printer is out of order, (waiting on a replacement), or I would show it on here.

Undoubtedly, these are two different printings of this book. One of them is obviously wrong. Problem is, which one?? There probably was an error discovered, and was corrected in a later printing of the book. Again, which is correct???

I see no statement like, (second printing, or third printing, or any other clue), that would make me think that this was anything other than the first printing. Check yours for any clue if you will.

Only other thing of interest I find is the original price tag. $4.64 .

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:33 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 18235
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
Different versions, maybe? stuff added later? Maybe my version has it not? Time will tell.

_________________
To sign up as a bonus member, click this link.<<<<< LINK

God Bless America<<<< LINK worth clicking


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:54 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:41 pm
Posts: 864
Location: Southeast Texas
Curly-Nohair wrote:
Different versions, maybe? stuff added later? Maybe my version has it not? Time will tell.


This makes me wonder how prolific this problem is in our Proven loads in other reloading manuals????

Hopefully there wasn't any danger in the change or maybe it was just a typo...which does not make me feel any better.

Maybe this is where its a good idea get a couple of recipes that coincide :?:

Lets all try to stay safe.

Don2


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:58 pm 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 11:15 am
Posts: 18235
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
Don2 wrote:
Curly-Nohair wrote:
Different versions, maybe? stuff added later? Maybe my version has it not? Time will tell.


This makes me wonder how prolific this problem is in our Proven loads in other reloading manuals????

Hopefully there wasn't any danger in the change or maybe it was just a typo...which does not make me feel any better.

Maybe this is where its a good idea get a couple of recipes that coincide :?:

Lets all try to stay safe.

Don2

That is one of the reasons that we try to help, we don't need any reloaders showing up in the liberal news! :lol:

_________________
To sign up as a bonus member, click this link.<<<<< LINK

God Bless America<<<< LINK worth clicking


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:10 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8822
Location: Alvin, Texas
Don2,
Don't think for 1 minute that this is the first time I have found erronious data in published load books. I have found a good many over the years. However, few were dangerous, just wrong. I occasionally find one that is really potentially dangerous, but thankfully, they are few and far between.

There are tons of so-called tested book loads the won't even fit in the specified case they are supposed to fit in. So being alert is the name of the game. In time you get to where you snap to data that you know damned well won't work and so avoid them.

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:33 pm 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:14 pm
Posts: 946
Location: Topeka Kansas
D L my second edition is apparently a first printing, as no secondary, or further printing is noted. It is noted on page 2 as a #947242 copyright 1976 published by Lyman Publications Rt.147 Middledield, CT J. Mace Thompson President printed in the USA.

by the way the SP12 has nothing to do with this conversation, it was already marked for some other unrelated reason when I copied the page

_________________
gcbluerock@cox.net

Distributor for Downrange Mfg.

http://www.downrangemfg.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:55 pm 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8822
Location: Alvin, Texas
GCB,
Even that's different in my copy. It states:

Shotshell Handbook, 2nd Edition
Copyright 1976 by Lyman Products
Printed in the USA

Published by Lyman Publications
Rt. 147
Middlefield, Ct. 06455
J. Mace Thompson, president

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:04 am 
Presentation Grade
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2004 10:14 pm
Posts: 946
Location: Topeka Kansas
As an interesting note,;

In another area the exact same powder and charge weight, same primer, same hull, same payload the WAA12 & WAA12XW are listed one on top of the other, with the only difference being the pressure, as follows

WAA12 = 9430 L.U.P.
WAA12XW = 9250 L.U.P.

Since the WAA12XW came before the WAA12F1, ( not the WAAF114 which came later and is different again ) which is exactly like a WAA12 except for the cushion section dimension, and knowing that with SR 7625 you can load a coffee cup and a half in each shell before you get close to being in trouble, Would you, as I personally would, load them as a WAA12 with SR 7625?

_________________
gcbluerock@cox.net

Distributor for Downrange Mfg.

http://www.downrangemfg.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:05 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:36 pm
Posts: 714
Location: Wyoming
My Second Edition reads the same as GCB's. In addition to the previously mentioned recipes, there is one on page 170 using W473AA

DL: It looks like I got hosed on the price of my copy. The worn sticker on the cover says I paid $6.95 for it. No indication that it is a later printing, except maybe a note on the upper right side of the cover saying "Expanded Coverage."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:19 am 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8822
Location: Alvin, Texas
QuarterChoke
Yup, got that one too. Missed it on the other looksee.

Mine has that starburst with the words Expanded Coverage, but I think that refers to Expanded Coverage over the 1st. Edition Handbook.

DLM

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: re: Reloading with Winchester WAA12XW wads.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 12:45 am 
Shotgun Expert
Shotgun Expert
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:20 pm
Posts: 8822
Location: Alvin, Texas
Napawino,
While we are having all this discussion, here's what I would do. Just load them in a low pressure load listed to use the WAA12 wad, and substitute the WAA12XW wad.

If those wads are indeed the same dimensions as the WAA12 wad, and take up the same amount of room in the case, I would load them with a low pressure book load like 19.0 grs. of Green Dot, in a AA case with a W-209 Primer. That should give you approx. 1180 FPS and approx 9,000 PSI. Or approx.18.7 to 18.8 grs Hodgdon's International for the same pressure and velocity. Those loads should be plenty safe, with pressures way below the SAAMI maximum of 11,500 PSI.

_________________
DLM


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 8fan, andyu, Bing [Bot], etech69, gearguywb, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, harvard, hopper810, huntr52, ill lion, Majestic-12 [Bot], OzShooter, RMORR, Road Man, troutchops, Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice