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 Post subject: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:31 pm 
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Location: NC
I saw an ad for a Spanish SxS in my local paper. The owner doesn't know much about it or guns for that matter. He told me the barrels said nitro, and made for Davidson's of Greensboro North Carolina. It is a 12 gauge, and has scroll engraving. He does not know if it is a boxlock or sidelock. It said he has shot it and everthing works well? Any info is appreciated. Also anybody know a range of values for this gun.

Thanks ahead

Goldhky


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 am
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Location: St Anthony, North Dakota
:D Hi, boy not much info to go on, to be honest almost zip. Without seeing the gun and it's condition there is no way to give a price.

You need to find out if its a SL, BL, ejector gun, bbl length, LOP and maker. All these factor into the value of a gun.

Guns made for Davidson were Ugartechea for one and I think some other makers that I can't remember now.

This may be a gem or a dog. Find out as much as you can.

Good Luck!!!

All the best!

Greg


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:05 pm 
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I thought Zabala made some guns for them too.

Check the undersides of the barrels and let us know what kind of markings are under there.

Pics would be better.

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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:09 pm 
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Greg, thanks for getting back to me. The owner knew very little. He did say the barrels were 26" and choked full and modified. When he did not know whether boxlock or sideplate, I knew I was in trouble. He said the manufacture's name was not on the gun. Only made for Davidson's of Greensboro. He also said when I asked if it was a boxlock, it was a hammerless gun.

Not much to go on. He is located a fair distance from me, and I want to learn all I can before driving over.

Thanks again.

Goldhky


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:19 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 am
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Location: St Anthony, North Dakota
:D Hi Gold, glad to help. Sounds as if the seller does not know anything about it or shotguns in general.

M/F chokes in a 26" bbl is odd, possible, but odd. The "normal" chokes for a shorty like this would be IC/M.

Without you going there and looking at it, I think your screwed. Would the seller be able to e-mail you some pics? If he could, you could post them here and get some firm answers.

Keep us posted!

All the best!

Greg


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:06 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
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Prepare some short very clear questions beforehand and "walk" the guy through them.

Have him take the barrel off and read you what's on the water table and the barrel flats. He doesn't need to interpret - just read exactly without editing what he sees. (The stickies to this forum will let you interpret later)

Then ask him to describe the side of the gun - are there metal, sort of oval, plates going back toward the stock? (=sidelock) or does the metal stop abruptly (=boxlock)

He can also take a ruler and measure from front trigger to butt.

If he cannot (or won't) do this then sumpin's wrong!

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"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:09 am 
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Location: NC
gjw, I asked if he could mail pictures, he said no, doesnt have internet.

He did say the trigger guard was brass, and the trigger was metal. When I described the difference between the boxlock, and sidelock it was rounded. He said there was lots of scroll engraving on the gun.

I'm going to take Pumpster's advice and call and ask some precise questions, and set a time to go look it over.

Goldhky


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:59 am 
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Location: NC
Ok major breakthrough.

Boxlock, possible scallop boxlock
Prince of Wales stock
watermarks as follows: 1270 on both sides, L121803 a container with an X in it, an X across a 2, and finally P.B.

I now believe this to a a Antonio Sarasqueta gun. He claims excellent condition. Ball park whats it worth?

Goldhky


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:39 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 am
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Location: St Anthony, North Dakota
:D Hi, well good for you!! Now your on your way. The marking on the gun are as follows:

12/70 - 12ga, 2 3/4"

P.B. - Marker and your right about the maker

Other marks - Proof marks and of course the SN.

I don't know anything about this maker, perhaps Mitch or Dr David can chime in. This maker is not one of the top well known makers and I'm sure the gun was made to a price point. I don't think this is a high quality gun, more than likely a low to mid quality one. Just a guess on my part here.

Ball park $$, don't know, all depends on condition, one mans excellent is anothers fair. If the gun has ejectors, then the price goes up. Find out more if you can.

It seems that guys who know nothing about guns, tend to want either much more than what the gun is worth or much less, it seems more than less in most cases.

How much is he asking for it?

Good Luck!

Greg


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:38 pm 
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Location: Lodi, CA
O.k.

Here is what I know...

Davidson Firearms imported guns made by Fabrica De Armas. This has to be a pre DIARM gun, probably dating back to the early 1960s. They imported three models:

1) Model 63B which was an engraved nickel A&D BLNE with 25", 26", 28" and 30" barrels. There was a magnum version of the gun in 20, 12, and 10 ga. with 32" Barrels. The gun was discontinued in 1963.

2) Model 69SL which was true sidelock, engraved nickel action and 26"-28" barrels imported from 1963-1976.

3) Model 73 Stagecoach hammer gun.

Sounds like you are looking at a M 63B. If you are interested in the gun make sure it has a SINGLE TRIGGER. If is doesn't --WALK. For the price of the gun and the cost to make a single trigger right or convert the gun to double triggers by a competent gunsmith, you could buy a nice Uggie.

This gun is going to worth $300-400 tops in pristine condition. My 2000 Blue Book lists a 100% Mod. 63B for $275. The sidelock lists at $415. If you see the gun, like it, and want to buy it be frank with the seller (since this is out of the paper) and tell him that some Spanish guns from the 60s had problems and you would like a 3 day inspection period after buying it that would allow you to test fire the gun.


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:06 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 114
Hi,
I have a Davidson's 28 gauge that I bought around Christmas of 07....I really like it.
It's got a lot of drop and pitch, so I had to get used to holding my left hand out to keep the barrels up...it weighs 5.75 lbs. and is a great grouse gun.
Like yourself, I wanted to know all about it, but I started the research after the purchase.
I'll post some pics of mine, to see if yours is similar, as soon as I remember how.
I called Davidson's and the owner wasn't sure, but I recently got the book "Spanish Best" by Terry Wieland and it has good info.
the date of manufacture if it's L1, is 1966., M1(1967), N1(1968), etc.
Eibar has been the hub of Basque gunmakers forever.
The quality is decent and they are patterned after English guns.
Of course for the American import market, they had to hit a price point, but that being said , still decent guns.
I had a few wrinkles with mine, broke a couple of pins, and had some new ones made, plus had to have the safety adjusted (kept resetting after the first barrel fired), but a competent local gunsmith can take care of such things.
Get double triggers....Spanish guns with single triggers are troublesome, even expensive ones.
To find the exact manufacturer is tough, but it really doesn't matter, since they all were in mostly small shops, using same techniques....
the only initials I could find on mine are MA, which may mean Martin Amautegui, one of the makers at the time.
If you can post pics , that's very helpful.

Terry


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:22 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 114
also, those marks with the box with the X, the other x, and the PB (actually is BP) are all proof marks.
Box with X is the Eibar proof mark, used since July, 1931
the other x is black powder proofs
and the box with the BP means the gun was proofed to 12,090psi
all this info is from Wieland's book....
see if there are any initials stamped on the underside of the barrels , near the flats , where the choke markings are.
Terry


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 10:02 pm
Posts: 114
Here's pics of mine
Image
Image
Image

look similar?
Terry


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 Post subject: Re: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 8:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
David Dabaco wrote:
O.k.

Here is what I know...
... If you are interested in the gun make sure it has a SINGLE TRIGGER. If is doesn't --WALK. For the price of the gun and the cost to make a single trigger right or convert the gun to double triggers by a competent gunsmith, you could buy a nice Uggie....


(My snippet and bold)

David - did you mean "make sure it has a DOUBLE TRIGGER.."?

_________________
Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


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 Post subject: re: Anybody know the Spanish manufacturer for Davidson's
PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:43 am 
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Location: NC
Ok, here is the update. First of all thanks to all that contributed to my inquiry. David was right it was the Model 63.

I looked at the gun, and it was obvious that one man's excellent condition is another's poor condition.

The barrels and action looked very good, no rust, no pitts, shiny bores. Plates and fences were dull, but nice.

The forearm had a couple of fillings, and had been refinished. I think it was original, just a little rough.

The Buttstock was a whole different story. I don't think it was original. Had a very heavy lacquer finish. It had numerous fillings, and at least 4 cracks, some major. The finish was applied over these cracks. The fit of metal to wood was horrible. Terry, It did not look quite like yours, and could have been from another maufacturer if it was original.

The crazy part was the brass triggerguard. It almost looked like a handle that would go on a cabinet. It had a shotty weld , and the screw that held it on the rear was in crooked. A kid could have done this.

When I raised the gun to point, it was very off balance, and felt like a 2 X 4. no kidding. I don't think I have ever held a gun like this.

I told the guy I collected shotguns, but this was not what I was looking for. I told him I thought someone looking for a shooter would give him the $400 he was asking. He told me he got it at the local flea market a couple of years ago (it did still have the S/N on it), and asked me to make an offer. I politely declined and left, laughing all the way home.

Again, thanks to all that shared this experience with me.

Goldhky


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