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 Post subject: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:10 am 
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When will we see our first 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge shotguns ?

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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:24 am 
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About 2 years ago, Hornady slugs and H&R single shot rifled barrel gun, didnt get real popular.


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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:28 am 
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How about a 4" 28ga? Purdey, 1890's!

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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:31 am 
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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:43 am 
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Very correct!

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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:04 am 
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It is current and popular I think in some shotgun only states.
It's a buffalo killer.

http://www.hastingsammunition.com/id4.html

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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:22 am 
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How 'bout a 6" .410? Makes about as much sense!

BobK

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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:30 pm 
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Why not? Steel shot can't tell the difference anyway... :P

But if you're looking for a bigger payload in a smaller gun, I'd prefer a 3" 16 gauge that could handle 1 1/8 oz factory steel loads.


-Dave

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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:29 am 
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Hornady makes a 3 1/2 slug for the 20 gauge.
Designed for Buffalo at 100 yards, Look it up on youtube. I'd take it bear hunting if I had one...

If I find one though I'll be sure to pick it up, cant have to many guns you know!

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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:37 am 
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Why?

Doesn't a 3" 20 ga mag pattern poorly enough for you? :shock:


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 Post subject: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:05 am 
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My 3 inch shells dont pattern bad at all for my Rem 870. So long as I keep the choke open.

I wouldnt use 3 inchers for small game, just for ducks and geese and only in tungsten 5.
the 3 1/2 would be another excuse for me to get a new gun.

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 Post subject: Re: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:15 pm 
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BobK wrote:
How 'bout a 6" .410? Makes about as much sense!

BobK

I completely agreed...the idea of using a smaller gauge, in addition to lower carrying weight has a bit to do with some prestige, you're almost saying "I don't need as much shot as this fella to do the same job"

Bob....clammy?


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 Post subject: Re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:51 am 
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The 20 Ga 3-1/2 inch fills a great many voids in shotgun use. Simple ballistics tells us that this will be just like the 12 Ga 3-/12, a niche round for a niches purpose, IE Turkey hunting. With a 3-1/2 inch 20 Ga you can hunt with low brass 2-3/4, high brass 2-3/4, 3 inch mag and 3-1/2 inch mag 20 Very versatile. Simply put, this is mathematically a good decision for versatility.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:46 pm 
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Quote:
But if you're looking for a bigger payload in a smaller gun, I'd prefer a 3" 16 gauge that could handle 1 1/8 oz factory steel loads.


A friend of mine is having this idea developed. he has had the gun made and is working with a few companies for hulls, wads, and then load development. He wants it for pheasant - should be interesting

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 Post subject: Re: re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:56 pm 
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strato-caster wrote:
Why?

Doesn't a 3" 20 ga mag pattern poorly enough for you? :shock:


My 3" 20 gauge loads through a Carlson's turkey choke pattern pretty darn good! Killed a jake this year at 45 yards. Have killed turkeys in the past at 48, 47, 47, and 42 yards as well as some closer ones. I am using the (now defunct) Remington Wingmaster HD load instead of lead. But a 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge loaded with something like Federal Heavyweight shot would be a turkey killer probably to at least 55 yards and maybe 60. Why not just use a 12 gauge you ask? For a couple of reasons. First, the 20 gauge is lighter which is welcome hiking up and down hills on a warm spring day. Second, if you hunt with a child or spouse that uses a youth model 20 gauge, there are advantages to shooting the same gauge as they do. If one of you forgets your ammo you can use some of the other persons. Can't do that if one of you is using a 12 and the other a 20.

Having said all of that, I think the 3 1/2" 20 gauge would fill such a small niche, that it would not be marketable to produce. A few turkey hunters and a few waterfowl hunters shooting steel shot would be the only ones buying the guns or ammo. I don't think the volume of sales is there between those two groups to make it profitable. Not even if you throw in the "buffalo hunters". But do not underestimate the 3" 20 gauge loaded with high density shot. The patterns are not bad by any stretch of the imagination.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 1:51 pm 
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3 1/2" 20ga = 2 3/4" 12ga ???

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 Post subject: Re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:04 pm 
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Location: New York USA
The 3-1/2 inch would be easy to produce and market, just a bit more machining, like the 3-1/2 inch mossberg Ulti Mag! Plus it would shoot the other smaller rounds. Now as to performance, pretty simple to those of us with Engineering Degrees, KE= 1/2.M.VSquared Patterning has many variables, primer, powder, crimp, wad, shot column, shot density, Coating, IE copper plating, type of shell, Back boring on gun, choke, range etc. The 3-1/2 would work, just use some math, and it is possible.
Duane


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 Post subject: Re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 3:41 pm 
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Tell me again why?


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 Post subject: Re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:22 pm 
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Bill M. wrote:
Tell me again why?


I'll humor you. As I already stated, I don't think there would be enough of a niche market to make it economically feasible. But if you had a 3 1/2" 20 gauge, the why could be a lighter gun, easier to carry, faster to deploy and with the same ballistics as a 12 gauge. A 3 1/2" 20 gauge might even throw better patterns than a 3" 12 gauge. Let me explain. I patterned my 3" 20 gauge using a flush mount Carlson's turkey choke and Remington Wingmaster HD 1 1/4 ounce #6 loads against my 3" 12 gauge with extended Carlson's turkey choke and Remington Wingmaster HD 1 5/8 ounce #6 loads. Pretty much an apples to apples comparison. Same choke manufacture and same ammunition manufacturer and type of ammunition. The range was 45 yards and the targets were those turkey head targets where it looks like they x-rayed the gobblers head and you can see the neck bones and skull. I counted the hits in the skull and neck bones. I did not count hits in the other parts of the turkey's head or neck, just the brain and spinal column.

One would think on paper that the 12 gauge wins this hands down. More shot and a bigger bore always wins, right? Well, it did win. But it was much closer than you would think. Taking the hit average over 10 shots each, the 12 gauge averaged 1 pellet better in the skull and neck bones than the 20 gauge. It's been awhile ago and I don't remember the exact numbers but I think it was 7 pellets for the 12 and 6 for the 20. Of the 20 patterns, all would have killed the turkey. That is when I switched to carrying the lighter 20 gauge for turkey hunting. That one pellet wasn't enough to justify the extra weight of carrying around the 12 gauge.

So lets take the next logical step. If the 3" 20 gauge held it's own against the 3" 12 gauge, wouldn't it be logical to assume that a 3 1/2" 20 gauge would have likely bested the 3" 12 gauge? And if the 3 1/2" 20 gauge would in fact best the 3" 12 gauge, wouldn't a lot of hunters find that carrying a smaller lighter gun up and down hills and through the woods chasing turkeys without sacrificing performance an attractive option? Once again, I don't think it will ever happen, just playing devil's advocate. I am perfectly content chasing turkeys with my light 3" 20 gauge.


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 Post subject: Re: 3 1/2 inch 20 gauge ?
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 4:42 pm 
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oneounceload wrote:
Quote:
But if you're looking for a bigger payload in a smaller gun, I'd prefer a 3" 16 gauge that could handle 1 1/8 oz factory steel loads.


A friend of mine is having this idea developed. he has had the gun made and is working with a few companies for hulls, wads, and then load development. He wants it for pheasant - should be interesting


Tell your friend I don't think it would sell well. As a 16 gauge nut that I am, a 3 inch shell takes all the charm from a 16 to me. Heavy gun, death of most commercial 16 gauges, we already have good choices with the 12 gauge in the 3 inch. I speak for me, I wouldn't buy one, hell I don't buy 3 inch shells now for my 12's, or 20's......
Mike




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