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 Post subject: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:26 pm 
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Location: Atlanta Georgia USA
Just got a neat old JP Clabrough 10 ga sxs. Would like to do some clay shooting with it, but don't want to pay the price for 10ga shotgun shells. 10 ga and 12 ga are not that different in size.

Have seen some drop in tubes that allow 12 ga to be shot in a 10 ga gun. Don't think that full length tubes would be necessary because the 10 ga and 12 ga are close in size.

Any recommendations about what drop ins I should get?

This would not be a main gun to shoot clays, just fun from time to time.


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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:45 pm 
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Little skeeters (dirty and hard to use... search the archives) are available.

Seminole make a chambermate that goes from 10 to 20ga, but they don't make a 10 to 12ga model.


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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:59 pm 
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I think that the only adapter you will find for 10 down to 12 will be short, thin of course and split. Seems like the chambers are so close, they almost have to be.

And they split the hulls as well, about half of the time. If that gun is twist or Damascus, I wouldn't even try using them, as they contribute virtually no strength, being split as they are. 20 gauge now, that should be a possibility.

I have used them in a 10 gauge single H & R, to shoot a little black powder or smokeless trap with 12 gauge loads. (That was on the comeback from 5 bypasses, little recoil in that gun!) They came from Cabelas, if I remember right.

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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Best inexpensive adapter I have used are the Gaugemates.
Far better quality than Lil Skeeters and the customer service (guy named Pierre) was great to deal with. Super Fast shipping.
Liked them so much that I should have ordered the "3 Set Combo" {in 10Gauge combo sets are are 10-12, 10-16, 10-20.}
I used the Silver version. They are quality stainless steel, and like jugchoke said, the 10-12 will have a split down the casing. It is needed to keep the adapter from swelling to fit the chambers. Makes reloads a bit difficult cause of the line in the shell hull after firing. But, makes the adapter much more usable than the aluminum Skeeters.

If you use 10-20G, or 10-16G I don't think they will have a split casing. Sure can use a lot more ammo thru that 10G. Pairs are $55, sets of 3 combo pairs are $125. They may even come in different lengths for 10G ,can't remember.
Gold version stays in the gun, Silver needs to pop out to change shells.
http://www.gaugemate.com/
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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:47 am 
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Yep, that is them! I have the silvers as well. And the 10 gauge does come in two lengths.

I didn't like them because of the slit. They also split about half the hulls, full length as well. Some didn't look split, but handle them just a bit, and there it was.

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 Post subject: Re: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 5:45 am 
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NumberSix wrote:
Best inexpensive adapter I have used are the Gaugemates.
Far better quality than Lil Skeeters and the customer service (guy named Pierre) was great to deal with. Super Fast shipping.
Liked them so much that I should have ordered the "3 Set Combo" {in 10Gauge combo sets are are 10-12, 10-16, 10-20.}
I used the Silver version. They are quality stainless steel, and like jugchoke said, the 10-12 will have a split down the casing. It is needed to keep the adapter from swelling to fit the chambers. Makes reloads a bit difficult cause of the line in the shell hull after firing. But, makes the adapter much more usable than the aluminum Skeeters.

If you use 10-20G, or 10-16G I don't think they will have a split casing. Sure can use a lot more ammo thru that 10G. Pairs are $55, sets of 3 combo pairs are $125. They may even come in different lengths for 10G ,can't remember.
Gold version stays in the gun, Silver needs to pop out to change shells.
http://www.gaugemate.com/
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This looks like what I want. I do have Damascus barrels, but should be ok with field loads. Having the barrel wall and chamber length checked out before even thinking about shooting it.

I don't reload. If I want to start, there are plenty of hulls laying around each station that others have fired, so my possibly split, or lined hulls don't bother me.

Do have a concern that reloading may take more time than my shooting mates will like. I am hearing a lot of stuff like, "Come on, we are paying by the hour!" and "You take so long, you need to put in another quarter!"

Guess the Gold "stay in the gun" models would be better. Since we are looking at thin tubes anyway, will my ejectors work?


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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:00 am 
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Just checked the site for Guagemates. So far it looks good. Quite a price differential. Silver are $125 for 10/12, 10/16 and 10/20. Gold are $399! Don't quite understand that.

As far as patterning, since a 10ga barrel muzzle is larger than a 12 or 20, do I get a large change in choke/pattern? FI from a 10ga full choke, do I get an improved cylinder if I shoot a 20 ga?

Or does it stay a full choke pattern?


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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 11:42 am 
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The ejector/extractor "should" work with the Golds. They, I believe are the only ones that have them. That machined in slide, rides on the gun's ejector/extractor, hence the difference in price. And they are so thin and delicate that they are easy to bend and then bind of course. (The Silvers lift out, the whole thing, with the extractors. Then you have to push the MT hull out with a dowel, and load another live round in them and the gun. Ejectors might and might not work well with the silvers, no real cam action, and the "spring" might not be enough.) Even if they do, you will have to "catch" them on ejection.

I don't think you are going to find Golds for the 10/12 gauge, because in those gauges, they are waaaaay, too thin to even think about being able to machine the extractor/ejector slide into them.

Again, that is why the split is in the 10/12 gauge ones. They are so thin that they would swell and stick in the chambers without the split.

And again, as to using split ones with modern loads in damascus barrels, in my mind, that split is going to act just like a defect. A notch effect if you will. And in destructive testing of pressure vessels, guess where virtually all failures start?

Yep at a defect! Stress concentration it is called. So thin that they have to be split, to keep from swelling and sticking, is going to give you virtually no metal re-enforcement, but will concentrate the stress at the split.

As too the patterning, using short adapters, the shot charge takes on the carrier barrel choke constriction.

Now, let me make a prediction and you can make of it, just what you want.

You get a set. You use them a couple of times. You figure out that they are a PIA, (pain, you know where). You lay them back and then 20 years later you run onto them again. You wasted your money.

I ought to dig up my set and sell the things! But I just might use them again, some time in the future, (if I live long enough!)

Well, what I really should do is sell them and the two guns that would/could use them. I say could, because I would never, ever use them, because of the split, in the damascus barreled one.

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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:31 pm 
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The "split" in the 10gauge to 12gauge is because of the thin shell. An immutable virtue of the small difference in chamber bores from 10-12 gauge. It is necessary to allow a shell to swell-up without sticking itself into the adapter. It will allow the shell hull plastic to conform to the chamber diameter along the line of the split. It will allow the spent shell to be 'easily" popped out (yes sometimes you may need to poke it with a stick to get it out better).

I don't know the effects of using any adapter on Damascus barrel shotguns. As to whether the "split" is a weak point for failure; or acts in the opposite mode as a safety /stress release I don't know. {controlled stress release, a zipper effect via the plastic deformation in the hull, a blow-by due to open tolerances♠?} Unknown.

BUT: the manufactures of both Lil Skeeters and the Gaugemates strongly recommend use of factory Target Loads such as REM STS or Win AA. The customer service guy told me that's how to best avoid the shell splitting problem that jugchoke mentioned. Call both manufactures and ask them about experiences they have with 10 Gauge.
http://www.littleskeeters.com/

I don't think the 10 Gauge to 20 Gauge or 10-16 adapters have the casing split. As jugchoke mentioned, the gun will determine the choke pattern.

It's not that "split casings' that would even bother me at all. It is the general safety of a "light" modern ammo in your Damascus Barrels that is primo concern.

If the adapters let you safely use more types of ammo for "fun shooting " in your old 10 Gauge then perhaps a $55 chance is worth a try? 10 Gauge ammo around my location is priced outrageously high! Call Gaugemate about their custom work, that should have given them some knowledge about using their stock Silver/Gold 10-12g in your gun. http://www.gaugemate.com/custom.htm


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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:35 pm 
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Edit to delete double post

:oops:


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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:50 pm 
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Location: NJ
I have heard from some old timers that when they couldn't get 10 gauge ammo they would just shoot 12 gauge shells (directly, without any chamber inserts). I can't verify the veracity of this story or the efficacy or safety of this procedure. I'm just putting it out there...


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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 25, 2009 7:48 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:37 pm
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TAK has it right. I've shot hundreds of 12 gauge shells through 10 gauge guns. The hull will be useless afterward, but it can be done and is a cheap way to play with the 10 gauge break-action guns.


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 Post subject: re: Drop ins for 10 ga to 12 ga?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:25 am 
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A close friend is a master machinest and he made me a set of 8ga/12ga tubes and also a set of 10ga/20ga tubes for a couple of old SxS guns. They work great. He swears that he will never do it again. :lol: He feels that the 10ga/12ga adapters are too thin, however.

Bye the way, be aware that "low brass" modern target loads often run up to 12,000psi. This is just the same as the old "short magnums". Low pressure shells are a special order item and Wally World does not offer them.

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