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 Post subject: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:08 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:31 pm
Posts: 78
Location: NC
I am trying to find out which version of the American Arms Derby is better and who made each. I have run across both the coin finish (non-hand detachable SLE, DT) and the case color (hand detachable SLE, ST). It is my understanding that zabala made some of them (many be all of them) Any help is appreciated.

What is comes down to is I have found a case color version with hand detachable sidelocks, ejectors, single trigger 12ga 26"
full/full pretty much new condition for around $1100-$1200 and I have SSD really bad lately. The only thing I don't like about it is the chokes, and they can easily be opened up.


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:45 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 am
Posts: 1957
Location: St Anthony, North Dakota
:D Hi Dryfly, well I happen to own a Derby. It was made during the DIARM period. It is a 20ga, coin finished action, 25" bbls, IC/Mod, SNST, english stock with a checkered butt. My gun was made by Francisco Sarriugarte (who was also the head of DIARM). It's been a very good gun, save for the SNST. The SNST, failed on me (would not fire the second bbl). It's been fixed and works like a champ now. Beware the Spanish single trigger!!

The guns workmanship is very good, excellent fit and finish, and very good handling qualities. The wood is fairly plain with some figure. The pores are not really filled and the checking is not the best, not sharp, but rather flat and the diamonds are large. Other than the wood and the SNST that balked, it's a good quality gun.

I can't comment on the Zabala made guns. The ones I have seen (pics only), don't seem to have the same level of workmanship. The engraving is simple scroll and shallow. the wood even more straight grained than the F.S. guns. The Zabala guns look a cut below in appearence overall.

You can tell the difference by the engraving pattern (the F.S. are floral) and the F.S. guns are stocked to the fences.

I use mine for doves and it has performed well on this fast little bird. I really like mine and I'm going to keep her!!!

I paid $1050.00 for mine NIB, so your price is in the ballpark. I have seen some (Zabala and F.S.) going for $2500 +/-, IMO to high for this series.

This model was imported by both American Arms and for a short while Tristar.

Hope this helped.

All the best!

Greg


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 5:23 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 1358
Hi Dryfly,

I have one of the Hermanos Zabala Derby shotguns. It is a six pin, back action, SLE, two barrel set (20/28 gauge, choked IC/MOD), English stocked, DT, hand detachable locks, stock wood and checkering a couple grades above the completely bland wood usually found on Spanish shotguns. Locks have the case color left on them, engraving pattern is scroll.

Can't make much of a comment on 'better', as that's a judgement call :)

Warmly,

Kyrie

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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:06 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:46 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: dothan, al
I,too, had a Derby built by F. Sarriugarte. I loved it. It was 20-bore with 25" barrels, imp/mod chokes, raised file rib, double triggers, coin finished, scroll engraved, English stock, splinter forend.

I sold it on Gunbroker a few months ago for $1800... much more than I hoped for to be honest.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Adam


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:48 am 
Crown Grade
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Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2006 7:51 am
Posts: 2881
Location: ILLINOIS
The Derby looks a lot like the Ugartechea Grade IV from Lion Country.

The barrels actually look a bit nicer.

I think this gun has been a real sleeper.

Roger.


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 12:54 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 3:42 pm
Posts: 1358
Compare the engraving on the pictured Derby to that on the Horizon SL being offered for sale on Gun Broker:

http://v4.beta.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vi ... =123907525

Is it my imagination, or are these two guns cut with exactly the same pattern?

Great Godfry, but I do love Spanish Steel :D

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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 9:20 am 
Utility Grade
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Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:51 pm
Posts: 1
Location: Kansas
Here are a few pics of of a 20 guage Zabala Derby that I've had for a few years. I've never handled a Sarriugarte version but they do appear to be a step up from this Zabala. That said I have no regrets considering I paid $450 for it LNIB about 15 years ago. :lol:


Image


I'd estimate that I've put around 3000 rounds through this one without any glitches. Shot sporting with it for a couple of seasons and dropped buckets of quail in SE Kansas.


Image

It fit me perfectly about 50 lbs ago... :oops:


Image


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:13 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:31 pm
Posts: 78
Location: NC
Thanks for all the assistance and input on the subject. I am having non-buyer remorse big time over this one. I was a little undecided because of the single trigger since some have had problems, although many of you have not, and I have also made a couple of recent purchases of Spanish SXSs. I was actually expecting bidding to go quite a good bit higher. Someone got quite the deal. I regretfully could not bid at the end of the auction because of a prior engagement, and wish I had atleast put in a bid for someone to have to beat.
Anyway here it is.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =124843025


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:24 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 12:12 pm
Posts: 108
Location: OR
It may have been even another manufacturer. I asked the seller if it had a ZH or FS stamp on the bottom of the barrels or watertable. He replied " It says BEST, BP (in a small box) and F2, along with what looks like F.A.D. on the bbls"

I don't see FAD in the references, but the BEST refers to ERBI if I recall. Truly a mystery. It did look good though in the pics.


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:09 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 am
Posts: 1957
Location: St Anthony, North Dakota
:) Hi all, well whoever got that Derby got a real good deal. The gun in queation is made by F. Sarriugarte. You can tell by the engraving pattern and also it's stocked to the fences. Mine (a F.S. gun) and Adam's (also a F.S.) are both marked "Best". Either way, the buyer got lucky!!

All the best!

Greg


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:30 am 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:03 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: peoples socialist republic
OK, I confess. (joyfully) Kept waiting for a battle, then figured the guy didn't want to spend more or was away from the computer.

Little concerned about the trigger though. GJW, where did you get it fixed and if you don't mind, how much? I have a 1988 Uggie made 12 with chrome bores.

Anyone know if the Derby has chrome barrels? I haven't seen a Spanish or hardly anyother that wasn't tighter than marked.

Sorry, Dryfly, but only somewhat.

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"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...to disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."..
founding father George Mason.


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:31 am 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:15 am
Posts: 1957
Location: St Anthony, North Dakota
:D Hi P. USA, I got my trigger fixed here locally. The cost I think was about $75. Not to much and I've not had a problem since.

I don't think the bbls are chromed. I've got mine in to have the stock refinished and also the front bead replaced (it's got a God awful BIG front white bead, getting a brass bead put on her).

I patterned mine with both 7 1/2 and 8 shot in 7/8oz loads, both come out to what the bbls are marked (IC/Mod). I only use this gun for doves anyway.

BTW, congrats on getting the gun.......you got on good deal. In fact you stole that poor little girl :wink:

All the best!!!

Greg


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:57 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:31 pm
Posts: 78
Location: NC
Well, well, well, I guess I can atleast rest easy knowing someone here got the gun, best of luck Patriot. If you get tired of it, let me know.


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 Post subject: re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:41 pm 
*Proud to be a*
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Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:03 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: peoples socialist republic
Thanks Dryfly. It's the only sidelock I own except a well worn 1904 Baker Batavia Leader I bought in 1957 for $12. Twist barrels, choked ic/ic. Ignorantly, 3 3/4 dram eq. loads were fired in it in 1970 and it stayed together.

Saw a replica add on the Baker with twist barrels; said they were nitro proofed.

_________________
over the hill and picking up speed.

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...to disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."..
founding father George Mason.


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 Post subject: Re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:09 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:03 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: peoples socialist republic
OK, so I took the gun out yesterday. As suspected, the chokes are one step tighter than marked. Trigger and ejectors work fine. The gun is well crafted.

I just don't understand the analogy that Sarriugarte made the gun when 'Best' stands for Erbi.

_________________
over the hill and picking up speed.

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...to disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."..
founding father George Mason.


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 Post subject: Re: American Arms Derby help?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:15 pm 
Diamond Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:46 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: dothan, al
I have always wondered the same thing. Maybe someone can shed some light on the subject.

Adam


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