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 Post subject: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:02 am 
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Does anybody know what Annie Oakley shot with? I have always been curious . . .

-Aloysius




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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 2:15 am 
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She was known to have used many makers and many types of weapon, among them Lancaster and Francotte shotguns, plus Colt and Smith and Wesson revolvers.Some years back a Marlin rifle said to be hers was auctioned in the US, and a smooth bore Winchester went at Chisties in London around the same time.

At the back of my mind I have the idea she was sponsored by Greeners; anyone got some info?

Eug

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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 5:28 am 
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Phoebe was definitely a Marlin fan, and that was what she used in many of her acts while with Buffalo Bill. Many photos exist of her posing with one and there are also a couple of surviving old newsreels. I have also seen photos of her with a Greener double barrel. There are so many different stories of what else she shot floating around, I don't know that I would trust any of them. She shot a lot of those hand thrown glass balls with a rifle, not a shotgun. They have Annie Oakley Days every Summer near here. She was quite the interesting lady.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annie_Oakley

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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 7:49 am 
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Lets not forget Annie Oakley shooting for Ithaca Gun Company...


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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 10:18 am 
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I've got a biography about her at home, "Little Sure Shot". I'll look for it this evening.

If I remember correctly most of her shooting with the Marlin was done with .410 rounds, that is the thrown stuff anyway. Greener rings a bell..........but what ever it was it was made very specifically to fit her and her fitting was tweaked from time to time. She had to have it just right.

My impression after reading the book was that she was a very highly experienced high volume shooter with all sorts of guns. Truely gifted as well as an expert.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:08 am 
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Wow, very interesting! Does anybody know of how much an Annie Oakley gun would go for these days or when some of the last sales were?

I've heard that the .410 is the most efficient shot load or has perfect patterning or something like that. I guess Annie knew that as well - without all the modern ballistic studies. I'd love to see some of her shotguns . . . they must still be in existence, maybe in a Trust or Museum somewhere?

-Aloysius


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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:26 am 
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Aloysius wrote:
I've heard that the .410 is the most efficient shot load or has perfect patterning or something like that.
-Aloysius


I think that's a load of bunk myself.

All you read about shot column, set back etc. Indicates that a long narrow column of shot (ala 3" .410 shell) has the most shot deformation due to set back, as well as the most scrubbing due to large amounts of surface in contact with barrel (long skinny vs short fat)
Which should indicate a .410 having the most deformed shot and therefore the highest degree of randomness to its patterns.

This is the classical 20 vs 12 gauge or the 3.5" 12 vs the 10 gauge arguement where in even if you can cram the same shot weight and get the same velocity the larger bore will outperform the smaller in pattern density. Atleast in theory.


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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 11:39 am 
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So that means that within any given gauge the shorter shell should pattern better? I wonder if that's been tested?


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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Don't forget, a consideration in her gun and ammo selection might have had to do with shooting in arenas, and a slight 5 foot tall lady having to absorb the recoil of a lot of rounds.
I know a lot of her early market hunting was done with a single shot muzzle loader. And she used to head shoot the quail. I used to know a guy who was heavily involved with the Buffalo Bill Museum, and I seem to recall they had at least one of her rifles there.

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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 1:27 pm 
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I was at a Cristies auction that several "Anne Oakley" guns were sold. The two that I remembered were Marlin lever actions They were the same on the outside but one was a rifle and the other was a .410 smooth bore. Remember, Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show often played under a tent, especially in Europe. The thrown glass balls, sometimes filled with feathers, were shot with the rifle/shotgun clone to keep shooting holes in the tent to a minimum.

I have seen pictures of her with Greener shotguns. I find it curious that W.W Greener does not mention her in his book The Gun And It's Development.

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 Post subject: Re: What type of gun did Annie Oakley shoot?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2009 6:23 pm 
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I seem to recall reading that the .410 (2 1/2") was developed for her specifically at her request for an improvement over the .45 long colt shotshell (slightly greater payload)....I'd think someone at Winchester/Western would know.....they probably have an archive.......Art



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