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 Post subject: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:00 pm 
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So as many that read this sub-forum know I am fairly avid fan of the 410 slug and deer hunting with 410 slugs. I also know that hunting deer with a 410 slug is a somewhat controversial subject, but setting that controversial aspect of the subject aside for the moment I was wonder if the readers here could help me with some research.

I have, over the past week or two, attempted to look through the hunting regulations of ever state in the union to see if hunting deer with a 410 slug was legal in that state. I would like to put together a table of that data for my website. I have had pretty good success finding results but could use some help to check and fill in the spots were I am still missing data. Some states hunting regulation were easy to find and easy to read others states were more difficult to find or understand their regulations and a few state's regulations were down right confusing.

So if you could kindly take a look at the list below and take a minute to check if I have your state (or states you hunt in) correct I would be very appreciative. If you see an error or can fill in a state I don't know yet that would be great. Please add detail to a yes or no answer for your state. If you can provide a link to supporting info that would be excellent.

Code:
Is hunting deer with a 410 slug legal?

State      Yes/No  Comments
-----      ------  --------
Alabama   Yes   10ga or smaller
Alaska   ?   Need help finding law
Arizona   Yes   No gauge specified
Arkansas   Yes   410 or larger
California   Yes   No gauge specified
Colorado   No   20ga or larger
Connecticut   No   12, 16, 20 only
Delaware   No   Need help finding law
Florida   Yes   No gauge specified
Georgia   ?   Need help finding law
Hawaii   ?   Need help finding law
Idaho   Yes   No gauge specified
Illinois   No   10ga - 20ga
Indiana   Yes   10-12-16-20 and 410
Iowa   No   10ga - 20ga
Kansas   no   20ga or larger
Kentucky   Yes   10ga -410
Louisiana   Yes   No gauge specified
Maine   Yes   No gauge specified
Maryland   No   20ga or larger
Massachusetts   Yes   10ga or smaller
Michigan   Yes   No gauge specified
Minnesota   Yes   No gauge specified
Mississippi   ?   Need help finding law
Missouri   Yes   410 slug specificly allowed
Montana   Yes   No gauge specified
Nebraska   No   20 or larger
Nevada   No   10ga - 20ga
New Hampshire   Yes   No gauge specified
New Jersey   No   10ga - 20ga
New Mexico   No   28ga or larger
New York   No   20ga or larger
North Carolina   ?   Need help finding law
North Dakota   No   20ga or larger
Ohio   Yes   10ga - 410
Oklahoma   No   20ga or larger
Oregon   Yes   No gauge specified
Pennsylvania   Yes   No gauge specified
Rhode Island   No   10ga - 20ga
South Carolina   ?   Need help finding law
South Dakota   No   1000 ft-lbs for shoulder fired
Tennessee   Yes   No gauge specified
Texas   ?   Need help finding law
Utah   No   20ga or larger
Vermont   ?   Need help finding law
Virginia   Yes   No gauge specified
Washington   No   10ga - 20ga
West Virginia   Yes   No gauge specified
Wisconsin   No   Explicitly say no 410
Wyoming   ?   Need help finding law

   22   Allow 410 slugs for deer
   9   states are undetermined
   19   Do not allow 410 slugs for deer


Thanks
mcb



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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:48 pm 
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You may have to actually call some of the state game folks... the confusing language could put you in a world of legal hurt if you thought one thing while the law (in some sub law) said another.

I had to talk to someone with regards to hunting with semi auto shotguns in NY... PA it's a big "no-no". In NY it's okay.

E


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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:05 pm 
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Schmitti wrote:
You may have to actually call some of the state game folks... the confusing language could put you in a world of legal hurt if you thought one thing while the law (in some sub law) said another.

I had to talk to someone with regards to hunting with semi auto shotguns in NY... PA it's a big "no-no". In NY it's okay.

E



I am just trying to get and idea. My list is in no way to be a guide to what is legal or not just to get and idea of how many states it might be legal to hunt deer with a 410. Many states have zones/districts or similar and what might be legal in one area would not it another. Its just a survey to get an idea of how wide spread the legal use of 410 slugs on deer might be. Curiosity's sake only.

mcb

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:00 pm 
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Down here in south carolina where im at, when gun season comes in for deer you can hunt deer with any firearm. 10 ga, 12, 16, 20, 28, and 410. Even pistols. You can hunt deer with all of those. We do NOT however, have a specialized season for shotguns. But muzzleloaders we do.

I myself am going to be hunting with a 12 gauge Moss. 500 w/ rifled barrel this coming season.

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:03 pm 
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I forgot to add in my last post, North Carolina does have shotgun only areas around Charlotte NC, don't know where else. As far as that goes, I don't believe gauge is restricted for NC. From my dad's hunting experience you can use whatever gauge you want. He knew a guy that had a 10 gauge shotgun, shooting 2 ozs of #4 shot. It was a double barrel. Killed a doe with that load and gun when he pulled both triggers at once on a man drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:04 pm 
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Once, many years ago I found a doe wandering around a pasture.
Closer examination revealed she took a load of bird shot to the face during gun season. Illegal as hell ya know.
The blinded, infected doe ws put down by me with my 2" Smith .38 Spl.
I can't use the words here to say what I feel about a dingbat using birdshot for deer.
I hope you feel the same way.
It's just plain sick to pull a stunt like that. :oops: :evil: :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:32 am 
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Along the same lines as the previous post:

What drives me nuts is those fracking idiots who things guns shoot like lazers and don't compensate for range and blow the front legs off and leave three legged critters running around. This is a problem with any firearm but especially slug-guns.

:w are they thinking?



Now back to back to the original topic under discussion. Montana regs, at least at current go a little beyond just not specifing which guages are legal and which arn't. At one point in the big game hunting regs it specifically has wording stating "There is no caliber restrictions in Montana, however due prudence and sportsmanship is expected" or something like that. I could probably go pull the regs and get an exact quote but I'm feeling lazy right now. In other words it's all legal but don't get stupid or we will just bust you for being stupid. In my personal opinion the jury is still out on whether a 410 would be entirely outside the stupid catagory. Some hunters like yourself McBirch seem to know what there doing with it but I'm not so sure about others.


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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 12:40 pm 
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Slug-Hunter wrote:
Down here in south carolina where im at, when gun season comes in for deer you can hunt deer with any firearm. 10 ga, 12, 16, 20, 28, and 410. Even pistols. You can hunt deer with all of those. We do NOT however, have a specialized season for shotguns. But muzzleloaders we do.

I myself am going to be hunting with a 12 gauge Moss. 500 w/ rifled barrel this coming season.


Thanks for the info on South Caroline. Those were one of the more difficult game laws to sift through.

tommygirlMT wrote:
Along the same lines as the previous post:

What drives me nuts is those fracking idiots who things guns shoot like lazers and don't compensate for range and blow the front legs off and leave three legged critters running around. This is a problem with any firearm but especially slug-guns.

:w are they thinking?



Now back to back to the original topic under discussion. Montana regs, at least at current go a little beyond just not specifing which guages are legal and which arn't. At one point in the big game hunting regs it specifically has wording stating "There is no caliber restrictions in Montana, however due prudence and sportsmanship is expected" or something like that. I could probably go pull the regs and get an exact quote but I'm feeling lazy right now. In other words it's all legal but don't get stupid or we will just bust you for being stupid. In my personal opinion the jury is still out on whether a 410 would be entirely outside the stupid catagory. Some hunters like yourself McBirch seem to know what there doing with it but I'm not so sure about others.


Thank for the confirmation on Montana.

mcb

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 2:01 pm 
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"Thanks for the info on South Caroline. Those were one of the more difficult game laws to sift through."

NP, I can hardly make sense of the laws myself! :cry:

jeager106 wrote:
Once, many years ago I found a doe wandering around a pasture.
Closer examination revealed she took a load of bird shot to the face during gun season. Illegal as hell ya know.
The blinded, infected doe ws put down by me with my 2" Smith .38 Spl.
I can't use the words here to say what I feel about a dingbat using birdshot for deer.
I hope you feel the same way.
It's just plain sick to pull a stunt like that. :oops: :evil: :evil:



It was #4 Buckshot :P not birdshot... although I agree completely. He should have been using at least 0 Buck or 00 Buck.

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:09 pm 
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per the Texas Parks and Wildlife hunting regs, page 54 under Means and Methods *Game animals and birds may be hunted with any legal firearm except rimfire ammunition of any caliber. Then on page 69 a legal shot gun is defined as one that is not over 10 ga and has a plug so that it will hold no more than 3 shells total. Hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:40 pm 
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I followed up on the north carolina thing... Page 40 of the rules and regulations book says that you can only use 10 gauge shotguns or smaller. No bigger. Example: You can shoot a 10 gauge, but you cant hunt deer or birds with an 8 or 6 gauge.

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Thanks Clayduster46 and Slug-Hunter.

mcb

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:17 am 
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here in Miss. you can use a 410 slug for deer hunting on private land,but not sure about public land


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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your state?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:50 pm 
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Heres a question for you Mcbirch:

I'm going to be getting back my old .410 Youth Shotgun, a NEF Pardner Youth, and I was wondering: With it's fixed full choke will it be ok to shoot the Brenneke Silver slugs out of the barrel? I have some stands in pretty thick cover and using it as a 50-yard-at-most slug gun would keep it from gathering dust. Provided its going to be even accurate at that distance with either the Brenneke or other slugs. Plus, the 410 slug would be good medicine for the neighborhood dogs or coyotes that might come up in the yard.

Thanks,
Slug-Hunter from SC

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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your stat
PostPosted: Sun Sep 28, 2014 1:48 am 
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mcbirch wrote:
So as many that read this sub-forum know I am fairly avid fan of the 410 slug and deer hunting with 410 slugs. I also know that hunting deer with a 410 slug is a somewhat controversial subject, but setting that controversial aspect of the subject aside for the moment I was wonder if the readers here could help me with some research.

I have, over the past week or two, attempted to look through the hunting regulations of ever state in the union to see if hunting deer with a 410 slug was legal in that state. I would like to put together a table of that data for my website. I have had pretty good success finding results but could use some help to check and fill in the spots were I am still missing data. Some states hunting regulation were easy to find and easy to read others states were more difficult to find or understand their regulations and a few state's regulations were down right confusing.

So if you could kindly take a look at the list below and take a minute to check if I have your state (or states you hunt in) correct I would be very appreciative. If you see an error or can fill in a state I don't know yet that would be great. Please add detail to a yes or no answer for your state. If you can provide a link to supporting info that would be excellent.

Code:
Is hunting deer with a 410 slug legal?

State      Yes/No  Comments
-----      ------  --------
Alabama   Yes   10ga or smaller
Alaska   ?   Need help finding law
Arizona   Yes   No gauge specified
Arkansas   Yes   410 or larger
California   Yes   No gauge specified
Colorado   No   20ga or larger
Connecticut   No   12, 16, 20 only
Delaware   No   Need help finding law
Florida   Yes   No gauge specified
Georgia   ?   Need help finding law
Hawaii   ?   Need help finding law
Idaho   Yes   No gauge specified
Illinois   No   10ga - 20ga
Indiana   Yes   10-12-16-20 and 410
Iowa   No   10ga - 20ga
Kansas   no   20ga or larger
Kentucky   Yes   10ga -410
Louisiana   Yes   No gauge specified
Maine   Yes   No gauge specified
Maryland   No   20ga or larger
Massachusetts   Yes   10ga or smaller
Michigan   Yes   No gauge specified
Minnesota   Yes   No gauge specified
Mississippi   ?   Need help finding law
Missouri   Yes   410 slug specificly allowed
Montana   Yes   No gauge specified
Nebraska   No   20 or larger
Nevada   No   10ga - 20ga
New Hampshire   Yes   No gauge specified
New Jersey   No   10ga - 20ga
New Mexico   No   28ga or larger
New York   No   20ga or larger
North Carolina   ?   Need help finding law
North Dakota   No   20ga or larger
Ohio   Yes   10ga - 410
Oklahoma   No   20ga or larger
Oregon   Yes   No gauge specified
Pennsylvania   Yes   No gauge specified
Rhode Island   No   10ga - 20ga
South Carolina   ?   Need help finding law
South Dakota   No   1000 ft-lbs for shoulder fired
Tennessee   Yes   No gauge specified
Texas   ?   Need help finding law
Utah   No   20ga or larger
Vermont   ?   Need help finding law
Virginia   Yes   No gauge specified
Washington   No   10ga - 20ga
West Virginia   Yes   No gauge specified
Wisconsin   No   Explicitly say no 410
Wyoming   ?   Need help finding law

   22   Allow 410 slugs for deer
   9   states are undetermined
   19   Do not allow 410 slugs for deer


Thanks
mcb

For PA.:http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter141/chap141toc.html

§ 141.1. Special regulations areas.

(a) Name. The areas shall be known and referred to as special regulations areas.

(b) Descriptions.

(1) Southwest area. Includes the County of Allegheny.

(2) Southeast area. Includes the Counties of Bucks, Montgomery, Chester, Delaware and Philadelphia and also includes Tyler and Ridley Creek State Parks and other publicly-owned lands therein.

(c) Prohibitions.

(1) Except as provided in subsection (d), it is unlawful to take, kill or attempt to take or kill wildlife through the use of a firearm of any description which discharges single-projectile ammunition, or, while hunting for wild birds or wild animals, to possess single-projectile ammunition, except for employees of political subdivisions and other persons who have a valid deer control permit issued under the authority of Chapter 29 of the act (relating to special licenses and permits).

(2) It is unlawful to use buckshot in Allegheny or Philadelphia Counties without specific authorization of the Director.

(3) It is unlawful to, except for normal or accepted farming, habitat management practices, oil and gas drilling, mining, forest management activities, or other legitimate commercial or industrial practices, intentionally lay or place food, fruit, hay, grain, chemical, salt or other minerals anywhere in the southeast special regulations area for the purpose of feeding white-tailed deer, or to intentionally lay or place food, fruit, hay, grain, chemical, salt or other minerals that may cause white-tailed deer to congregate or habituate an area. If otherwise lawful feeding is attracting white-tailed deer, the Commission may provide written notice prohibiting this activity.

(d) Permitted acts. It is lawful to:

(1) Except in Philadelphia County, Ridley Creek State Park, Delaware County and Tyler State Park, Bucks County, hunt and kill deer and bear through the use of a muzzleloading long gun or a shotgun, at least .410 gauge (rifled barrels permitted), including semiautomatics which, upon discharge, propel a single projectile.

(2) Take deer with a shotgun 20 gauge or larger—including semiautomatic—using buckshot in the Southeast area only.

(3) Take small game, furbearing animals, crows or wildlife with a manually operated rimfire rifle or handgun .22 caliber or less.

(4) Kill an animal legally caught in a trap with a manually operated rimfire rifle or handgun .22 caliber or less while trapping.

(5) Harvest more than one deer at a time when multiple harvests of deer per day are authorized without first lawfully tagging previous harvests, provided all deer harvested are lawfully tagged immediately thereafter.

(6) Hunt or take deer during any deer season through the use of or by taking advantage of bait on private property currently operating under a valid deer control permit where approval for limited baiting activities has previously been obtained under § 147.552 (relating to application). This limited authorization is valid only to the extent that persons comply with the standards and conditions in § 147.556 (relating to lawful devices and methods).

(7) Hunt or take deer in the southeast special regulations area during regular open hunting seasons for white-tailed deer through the use of or by taking advantage of bait on private property only under a deer attractant permit issued under Chapter 147, Subchapter R (relating to deer control).


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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your stat
PostPosted: Sat Oct 04, 2014 9:36 pm 
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I agree that the .410 would be adequate at ranges under 50 yards, but certainly not over. I have seen a deer struck on the shoulder with a 20 ga foster slug, and there was only enough energy to penetrate the hair and skin on one side, but the slug did not penetrate into the meat at all. Based on that single example, I would rate a 20 ga Foster as good for 75 max. I question why anyone would put such limitations on themselves, when the law allows for so much more. Is recoil an issue? A 16 gauge is the "just-right", Foster-style slug gun in my opinion, matching the maximum effective accuracy range (100 yards) with the minimum retained energy for a clean kill. A Foster-slug, 20 gauge gas-auto may be adequate for those suffering from recoil issues, as long as the 75 yard limitation is respected. Why limit oneself to clean kills at just 50 yards with a .410? Sure you might get lucky and place one right between the ribs, making a clean kill at longer range, but is it worth taking the unnecessary chance of crippling the animal?

I am proud that my state (NY) has banned such an inferior weapon during gun season. I am all about minimizing the challenge to myself, and maximizing my odds of a clean kill, which is why am happier than a pig in ****, that NY is finally letting us hunt the rut portion of archery with x-bows this season. With that weapon, I am confident that I can match my 90% + kill/shot, long-gun success ratio, while pushing my maximum shot range out to 40 yards (from 30 yards with a compound). I had dropped below 75% with the compound do to age and reduced practice time due to family responsibilities I suppose.

I am not from Missouri, but there is so much BS in print that you have to "Show Me" to make me believe. I do have a .410 squirrel gun, and some old phonebooks. I suppose I could buy some slugs for it and see for myself just how puny it is compared to my 16 and 12 gauges at 100 yards. When and if the tests are complete, I will post back how many pages each penetrated with foster slugs.


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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your stat
PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:24 am 
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I've seen 2 deer taken with .410 slugs(Brenneke 3") with so so results. First was at a running 150# buck and it was hit just behind the left shoulder and exited just in front of the opposite shoulder, leaving a .41 cal wadcutter entrance and .41 cal exit hole. Deer hit the dirt but required a finish shot despite passing inches away from the heart. 2nd deer was a 110# button buck shot over a feeder at about 15 yards. After our previous experience earlier that season, I instructed my 12 year old nephew to wait until it was broadside and shoot it through the lungs like a "bow shot". He did just that with a perfectly placed shot and the deer immediately laid down,began huffing & moaning..I explained to relax it will die shortly...10 mins later I realized it simply wasn't going to die, and made him get down and yet again finish it off with a shot to the head.
Same .41 cal entrance/exit. I have read all of Mcbirches 410 info and hence why we went with the Brennekes. IMHO and hindsight though, there are 2 schools of thought on bullet performance..
Some like the bullet to completely penetrate the target causing damage/bleeding as it passes through and ensuring a blood trail to follow the animal if wounded...Most people in this camp are partial to Barnes and copper bullets...I think the Brenneke is this type as it DOES NOT expand even when hitting bone due to the alloy it's made of being hard as a rock..You can barely dent one by biting it.
The other camp (what I prefer) is that the bullet expands rapidly and although penetrates enough to reach the vitals, does not exit, thereby killing with the shock of it's complete energy transfer. People who like these are partial to Hornady XTP's etc..The trick is that the bullet MUST reach the neighborhood of something vital..and then it can fragment into a grenade and do the job even better.

I believe in the case of the .410 the available ammo simply isn't matched to it's speed. The regular Foster slugs explode upon the surface at .410 speeds inside of 50 yards(probably even beyond as well)because they simply don't have the integrity to stay together at 1700fps.

The Brennekes simply have TOO MUCH integrity and deposit little of the energy they make on the target before passing through.

From all I've learned, tested and played with these little guns(as MCBIRCH has done) I believe that the .410 Foster slug could be used effectively out to 50 yards IF slowed down significantly into the 1200-1400fps range by chopping the barrel down to 18.5"(therefore removing choke at the same time and enhancing accuracy). Going from a 26" barrel to an 18" loses about 400fps IME. The Remington sluggers are consistently the best grouping slug out of CYL bore followed by Brennekes. The Sluggers hit an honest 1800fps in a 26" barrel and although the Brenneke (even faster) can take that upon impact, the slugger can't.
I believe that the Slugger out of a chopped barrel(I get 2" groups@ 50 yards) WILL be a good choice for a kid out to 50 yards, because it's more shootable, lighter up front, more accurate due to cyl bore etc.

I believe that a 26" barreled .410 (which has had choke cutout to make it CYL bore), shooting 3" Brennekes in the right hands(GOOD SHOOOTER) IS a viable option beyond 50 yards IF the shooter takes very selective shots, just like he's using a bow...at longer ranges. You will get a pass through, but it has to pass through something vital:)


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 Post subject: Re: Help: Hunting deer w/ 410 slug, is it legal in your stat
PostPosted: Fri Oct 24, 2014 11:15 pm 
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The 410ga is capable of so much more than people give it credit for you just have to cheat a little bit. No one is going to say that a .410 diameter 210gr lead semi-wadcutter going at 1500fps is not an effective round on whitetails out to at least 75 yards. Yet that is exactly what a reloader can accomplish with a factory 410ga provided the accuracy is there. One could also go the way Hoening did and hot rod the gauge a little (there loads are overpressure for normal shotguns but not as much as one would think) they were able to easily get a 375gr slug going at 1500fps. With those there have been reported kills out to 200 yards.

Now to get back to the original topic of this thread it is now legal in Kansas to use any gauge shotgun for deer hunting.



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