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 Post subject: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:56 pm 
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I recently picked up a Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12 ga. It is a single shot, break action shotgun. I cannont find any history on this shotgun. I have found pics of an Savage 410 that it looks similar to but thats all i can find. Does anyone know when this shotgun was manufactured or sold? I would also like to know the value. The wood is in excellent shape. the barrel has most of its blueing with only one or two minor scratches. The trigger and reciever seem to be maybe painted aluminum? not really sure. This part is pretty scratched. It is really tight and there is no pitting inside or out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.




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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:48 pm 
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We have a small problem here. According to information I have Montgomery Ward did use the "Store Brand Name" Hawthorn but did not use it with the name Vulcan. The name Hawthorn was used on a shotgun made after World War 2 but the cross reference name is listed as Unknown. According to my references, the name Vulcan Arms Co which is a "Trade Brand Name" was used on shotguns made before World War 2 and made by the Crescent Fire Arms Company of Norwich,CT (1892 to 1932). The guns were made for and were sold by E.K. Tryon Jr. & Co of Phildelphia,PA. To help clear up the problem, please if you can post a photo of the gun. Or give the markings exactly as the appear on the gun. As to value, these single barrel guns were made as inexpensive utility grade shotguns and sold for a maximum of $25.00 when new. Today value depends on the condition o the gun amount of original finish left on the metal and wood as well as the mechanical condition. Values can range from a high of maybe $175 for an excellent condition piece to less than $10.00 for a rusty rotten incomplete piece of junk that might make a good tomato stake.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:44 pm
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Well, I have pictures but the site will not accept them. I have tried to upload them for about 30 minutes now. I guess the file size is too large. I will try to use my camera phone although the pics will not come out as well.

As you can see i have had just as much trouble trying to find info also.

The gun clearly states on the side of the reciever - Hawthorne-Vulcan below this is Montgomery Ward & Co. The word Vulcan seems to be in Italics. I guess this may be the model? There are only two other markings that i can find. 12 ga. 2 3/4 Full Choke on the barrel and a number 2 that is hidden in the reciever and only visible when the action is opened.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:08 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:44 pm
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I could not get the photos to attach. I did however get some to upload in the photo section at the top of the website next to search. I added them to the shotgun section under the "other" section. I have named them Hawthorne-Vulcan Montgomery Ward & Co. Shotgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:22 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 10:42 pm
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Can't argue with what you see on the gun. I'm going to admit that most of my references are pre World War 2 area and I suspect that this gun is post WW2. Since I can't find the photos, I'm going to make a WAG that it was made by Stevens since most of the other makers had gone out of business by that time. The only thing that stands firm is the guess at value.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:44 pm
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Well, took it by a Flea Market and talked to some old timers. They are always up there and are always trading/talking guns. Their concensus was that it was made by Remington. Not sure if this is true or not. What led them to believe this was they way the barrel releases (it releases by a push button not a side to side lever) and because the safety is below this release and slides back and forward similar to several Remingtons. The one that i have found that looks similar is a savage 410 but had the side lever release. The overall date range seemed to be 40's/50's but no one was really sure. I will still try to get some pics posted to see if this helps with identification.

Thanks for all your help


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:34 pm 
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Location: WA/AK
It cant be a Remington. There is only one instance of Remington making "guns for the trade" and that was an automatic in recent times.

Remington only ever made two break-action single barrels, both hammerless that opened by a top=lever and were cocked by a side-lever. First was the Model 1893, which took down by means of a removable forearm with a Purdey-style button on the tip --

Image

The Model 1893 was slowly replaced with the Model 1902, which took down by means of a removable hinge-pin --

Image

Remington saw the future and got out of the break-action gun business in early 1910 and concentrated on their Autoloading Gun and Repeating Gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:53 pm 
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Okay, so still cant post pics for some reason. Below are some of the links to the pics that i added in the photo section of this site. Strange that i could upload them there but not here. There are 6 pics total and you can scroll through after clicking on the 1st URL link. I tried it and it worked. My only problem is if someone else post pictures they will be before the ones that i posted. Mine are all labeled Hawthorne Vulcan.

cpg1410/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=0

cpg1410/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=1

cpg1410/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=2

cpg1410/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=3


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:09 pm 
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Here you go:

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:10 pm 
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Old timers at the flea market didn't know their backside from third base did they? As said Remington quit making break open shotguns, both single barrel and double barrel in 1910. Using the furnished pictures I believe I've solved the problem of the unidentified gun. I looked through my reference books to see who had made guns for Montgomery Ward. I then eliminated those makers who had long since gone out of business. That left Ithaca, Savage and Stevens.
I went through each maker in The Gun Parts Inc. catalog looking at each makers guns, Found nothing under Ithaca. Then I went through Savage/Stevens and after about thirty pages, there it was. A Savage Model SB 100-B. That is the only place the gun is shown. It is not listed in the Blue Book or the Official Price Guide to Antique and Modern Firearms so there is no values listed. The illustration in the Gun Parts catalog matches the photographs. I hope you will accept this information from another old timer (I'll be 76 next month).


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:03 am 
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Good job Ned! I started to search this gun but my wife brought cocktails before dinner and........ :lol:

When I saw the pictures, I remembered the gun from one my buddy had when I was a kid. A loooong time ago. I thought that it was a Noble so that is the path that I took.

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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:47 pm 
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I too thought of Nobel and Kessler. Couldn't find anything that matched on them. Looking at the pictures, it was appearent that the gun was post World War 2 manufacture so that eliminated Crescent Fire Arms, Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works and Crescent-Davis Arms Corp.
The gun appears to have been made for Montgomery Ward alone.
There is one other incident of this happening when High Standard made a shotgun for Sears Roebuck.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:49 pm 
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I searched thru all my Savage paper from 1947 to 1988 (don't have catalogues from 1950, 1959, 1970, 1984 and 1986) and didn't match it. There were some single barrels in 1970s that had some similar styling ques though. Enough to establish a family resemblence.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 4:42 pm 
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I think I said that I found the illustration in the Gun Parts Inc catalog No. 23, page 712. Of course there is no information as to when the gun was made or its values. I could find no listing in any other reference book so I have to assume it was a "Store Brand Name" gun made for Montgomery Ward under the names Vulcan and Westernfield. It was never sold under the Savage name.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 6:12 pm 
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Thanks for all the help. I find it a little strange that there is no listing of manufacture with the name Hawthorne-Vulcan. Also most of the listings have Hawthorne without an "e" on the end.

While doing a little more research i found a Western field SB-100 that looks almost identical. The only difference that i can readily see is the forearm. On the Vulcan there is no screw to hold it in place. As far as i can tell it releases from a pin toward the back. The forearm is also much more slender.

Here is a link i found that has one for sale and has pics from auctionarms.com

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displ ... um=9193623

Again, THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR HELP!!


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 7:14 pm 
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The illustration I found in The Gun Parts Inc. Catalog lists the gun both as a Savage Model SB 100-B and a Westernfield (one word). In another reference the name is listed as Western Field (two words)
Montgomery Ward used the name either way. In the photographs of the gun that came over this site, the forearm is not shown only the receiver and breech end of the barrel. It's no great thing to change he shape of a forearm.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:38 pm 
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If I remember correctly ( it was,as I said, long ago), the recevier seemed to be of cast metal with a hard coating on it and the edges were smooth, not sharp.

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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:47 pm 
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There is one up for auction on Auction Arms, Item number 9193623.
The seller lists it as a Westernfield (Western Field?) SB 100. He wants $85.00 for it. The illustration is of the whole gun. Doesn't look too bad.


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:39 pm 
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This showed up on ebay today --

http://cgi.ebay.com/Western-Field-Montg ... 286.c0.m14


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 Post subject: Re: Montgomery Ward Hawthorne-Vulcan 12ga - need help
PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:12 pm 
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just saw your post on the hawthorne shot gun. i was given a 20 ga when i was ten years old in 1958. i have also have found a 410. and just bought a 12ga. would like to find out if they made 16 or 28 ga. any help




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