CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Wed Oct 22, 2014 4:39 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:39 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 6
I'm new to the forum and figure I'll start out with a bang!

As an avid collector of nearly every genre of scattergun, I have focused primarillary on vintage American and English guns. My collection contains everything from Parker "V" grades, up to A-1 Specials, Purdey hammer and hammerless guns, Boss, H&H, 21's Elsies, Foxes, etc. (I add all of this to bolster the claim stated in my subject heading).

I took delivery of my first RBL back earlier this spring; a 30", 28 gauge with DT, BT, PG choked M/F....Fast forward...I just returned fro my annual dove shoot down in Bolivia. The little RBL was shot over 3000 rounds without internal cleaning / disassembly. PERFECT PERFORMANCE! Needless to say I am quite pleased with the gun.

With above stated, I have some to a sort of sgotgun ephiphany: The all American made RBL line of guns is quickly becoming the next Parker gun. No, not from a technical standpoint as the 2 guns are quite disimilar in design. But more so from the fact that with 4 frame sizes in as many gauges now being offered and the myraid of custom options available, this is the only American offered since the much lauded Parker (well deserved BTW) to offer such. Add to this that one can get "upgraded" guns that are hand engraved with gold inlays and a lot of extras - I feel my claim has merit.

Think about it; Neither Fox, Winchester, nor LC smith (LC did, but I'm excluding the 10 ga from this discussion) had managed to do the same. Only Parker has (had). Now, CSMC has positioned itself to also make this claim....Only thing lacking is an RBL .410 and I'll bet that before much longer we'll see ads gracing our favorite gun rags lauding the new RBL .410. When this happens that will put the frame size variances (by gauge) to 5, only to be surpassed by that of Parker.

That and the fact that my RBL with nearly 10,000 rounds through it is quickly gaining status to earn the right to use the Parker catch phares of "Old Reliable". As previously stated, I have enough experience in gun collecting to venture froth and make this bold and I'm sure to some, blasphemous assertion.


So, forum members what say you?

JW




Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 8:37 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
You may indeed be right.

Glad you listed some of the guns you own - I have never shot, mounted, swung or even held an RBL and am very curious to learn how they feel in use.

How would you compare the dynamic of an RBL to that of a H&H?

By the way, welcome to SGW!

_________________
Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:04 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 6
Thanks for the welcome Frank!

Your question is a little bit tricky to answer, but, here's my take.

The RBL, or any SxS double can be properly balanced to point, swing and shoot as good as any H&H, Purdey, etc. It's all in thefit and balance of the gun.

For example, one could take a Stevens 311, 20 gauge, have some stock, trigger, barrel work done and it would be a better shooter than say an H&H that didn't fit you properly enough to allow for "instinctive" shooting. (been there done that).

To go a bit further, these "elite" makers get their money by offering the customer a complete package, customized to any extent to meet the buyer's needs. That and the near perfection finishwork is where the tremendous expense for these guns comes in.

However, when it comes to killing game / breaking clays, fit and finish don't mean much other than the mechanical necessity to have a gun function properly over the long tem. As Forrest Gump once stated: "Pretty is as pretty does". (I think that's right)

So, to answer your question, at least from my standpoint, I'd say my RBL 28 (which has been midified to fit me properly) points ad shoots as good as any of my top of the line guns. AND an added bit of bliss is the fact that I don't feel like I have to baby the RBL to the extent I do with my vintage collectibles. It's sort of like having a "beater" pickup for mudding / trashing about the ranch. It's real fun just running that thing hard and long without the worries of expensive repairs and extreme depreciation every time it gets a scratch / whisky dent (or two!).

In other words, if you want to hit what you are shooting at and want a very attractive gun that you can really use hard over an extended period of time, the RBL is the single best thing going in SxS doubles today.

I am planning on ordering up some "gussied-up" RBLs to pound to death in South America and here on bad days!

I hope this sheds some light as to your inquiry.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:34 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
Thanks for the quick response! I don't think I was very clear in my query.

Yes indeed, guns can be modified and balanced but there is an intrinsic dynamic that is inherent in the gun.

Let me re-phrase my question:

I assume here that the gun fits properly and the shooter has good form and is conversant with "instinctive" (i.e. Churchill) shooting. To clarify my question I will try to compare the handling (not the cosmetics) of 3 guns I happen to own.

My AyA #2 and my Merkel 47E BL (both 20 ga) both fit me perfectly and I hit the same number of birds with either.

I also have a Victor Sarasqueta SL that fits me perfectly and hits where I point it.

From the standpoint of breaking clays (or pheasants) all three of the above guns are equivalent and consequently "good". All custom-fit me perfectly and I know how to shoot them.

But they have a distinctly different dynamic.

The AyA is more like an English Best (it is a H&H clone). The Merkel is distinctly different.

The VS also points well, fits, etc. etc. but lacks a really nice dynamic. It balances well and all that but feels much more like an American trade gun. It is completely unlike an English Best. No amount of rebalancing will make it feel like a Purdy!)

So what I was asking is "Is the RBL anything like an English Best in the way it feels?"

The RBL is a serious American entry and yours certainly has stood up to hard use which makes it an attractive gun based on that metric.

So, does it feel like an English gun or like a Win 21 (or a Davis Arms :wink: )

_________________
Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:25 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 6
So what I was asking is "Is the RBL anything like an English Best in the way it feels?"

The RBL is a serious American entry and yours certainly has stood up to hard use which makes it an attractive gun based on that metric.

So, does it feel like an English gun or like a Win 21 (or a Davis Arms )

More like an English gun. 21s are clunky as you are well aware (I happen to like them though), but for some reason shoot quite well for me.

My bett'n gun is one of a pair of Purdey Extra finish guns (20 gauge) that for some reason shoots 3/4 oz. AA 8s as good as anything I've ever shot / seen shot...Just one of those guns that seems to do it all without thinking, but it ain't going to South America anytime soon - my little RBL 28 is a close second and thus gets to have more fun, so to speak.

Oddly enough, I use my 21, .410 exclusively for plantation quail - at 7 lbs and a half it shoots lightening fast and on target most of the time - Just did a registered smallbore sporting clays event and shot a 46 with it - go figure!

I think that my point is that balance and fit will make anything shoot well, otherwise the K-80 / K-20s would not exist!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:27 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 6
My bett'n gun is one of a pair of Purdey Extra finish guns (20 gauge) that for some reason shoots 3/4 oz. AA 8s as good as anything I've ever shot / seen shot.

OOPS! meant to say "7/8 oz"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:54 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
jwemmer wrote:
...
I think that my point is that balance and fit will make anything shoot well, otherwise the K-80 / K-20s would not exist!


(My snippet)

I think you are spot-on with that statement! But balance and fit alone won't give a clunker an English feel!

Very interesting what you say about the RBL - I've gotta try one even though I've never liked the way any domestic gun feels. This one might be different - they certainly are attractive (at least in pictures!)

_________________
Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:01 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Posts: 14623
Location: wilton.ct.us
The Parker mystique is almost as overblown as the Winchester, but not quite.

_________________
Jeff Hunter
NSCA: 557876; I'm only in "A" class, so WTF do I know?
There is no such thing as hard targets, only targets above our ability. -- Jimmy Muller
I pray every day for Obama: Psalm 109:8


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:35 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 6
"The Parker mystique is almost as overblown as the Winchester, but not quite."

I agree. However the fact is (from a collector's standpoint) both are quite valuable and are truly part of our national heritage - especially the Winchesters.

JW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:37 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:09 pm
Posts: 11603
Location: Houston, Texas
Jwemmer- Welcome to SGW. It's good to have another double gun fan on here... I feel they are commonly underrepresented in the current populous of the site.

I haven't looked into the CT guns yet. I'm contemplating selling a few of my "just for fun" guns and getting into the market for a nice SxS, and I'd like to consider this type of gun. I'm looking at spending around 2K, maybe a little more if I can get good prices for the guns I'm selling.

What's the price point on entry level RBL's? Would you say they're worth it? A family friend has a Browning BSS and he loves his, and my dad has a BSS Sporter and a BSS Sidelock that I believe he's having inturned with him when he passes. Are you familiar with these guns? Both Jeff and my father have suggested this gun to me as a good investment and I'd like to hear your opinion on the subject, being that you own so many fine doubles.

Pumpster, feel free to weigh in on this question too fella!

Nick

_________________
It is time I stop accepting the things I cannot change and start changing the things I cannot accept.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:27 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:12 pm
Posts: 4170
Location: Artesia, NM
phideaux_2003 wrote:
What's the price point on entry level RBL's? Would you say they're worth it?


For the 12 ang 16 ga guns, about $2750, assuming you PIF when ordered. The 28 ga is $3450, again PIF. Add $200 if you order w/$1000 down, and pay upon completion. The 20 ga. Launch Edition is no longer taking orders, you'll have to either look to the used market or buy one of those that CSMC has on hand, all of which have upgrades (re: expensive!).

Are they worth it? I guess that's up to each of us to decide. I've layed my money down for a basic 16 ga, and I've pretty much decided I will order a 28 ga. before the end of the year (when they stop accepting orders). I'm pretty much waiting for my 16 ga, so I can decide whether I like the 14 1/4" or 14 3/4" LOP for the 28 ga order.

_________________
Like the 28 Gauge?

Check out the 28 Ga Society! Copy/paste into your URL window:

28gasociety.46.forum er.com

Delete the space between "forum" and "er", and hit the "Enter" key. SGW's softer buggers direct links.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 10:45 am 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:09 pm
Posts: 11603
Location: Houston, Texas
Also, is this gun even available with fixed chokes?

Call me old fashioned but I just can't stand screw chokes.

_________________
It is time I stop accepting the things I cannot change and start changing the things I cannot accept.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:02 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:07 pm
Posts: 6
The BSS is a fantastic little gun. But one is seriously limited on fit and options as these have been out of production for over a decade and never came with any real options in the first place. Find one that fits you and you're golden. That said, you had better like single trigge pistol grip SxS guns.

The RBL is more pricey, but when one considers that it is a much more attractive gun when you consider that you can actually get near close to getting a custom made gun for 1-2k more (depending on options selected).

But consider this: An RBL 28 with DT, BTF, Self opener and really nice wood (standard) will cost you in the neighborhood of 4500. And you get the option of getting a pretty good fit and beautiful bone charcoal color hardening.....Nothing else on the market even comes close.


AND....It is made in the USA!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:26 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:09 pm
Posts: 11603
Location: Houston, Texas
I suppose I'll have to hold one some day before I understand.

_________________
It is time I stop accepting the things I cannot change and start changing the things I cannot accept.

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:07 pm 
Crown Grade
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:51 pm
Posts: 3983
Location: Hicktown, OK
The BSS is generally regarded as a reliable performer and they were available with straight-grip stocks, but they are not a light upland gun. My 20 gauge Sporter with 26" barrels must have weighed about 6 3/4 pounds. It was noticeably heavier than the 20 gauge Citori Upland Special I kept to hunt birds with.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 8:30 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:33 pm
Posts: 23
I had a Fox 2 bbls set made by CSMC a few years back and it is spectacular (16 and 20ga). I also just ordered a custom Model 21 from them to use for clays and some waterfowl. Regarding the RBL, The newer RBL's are very nice and don't compare to the earlier ones I saw while visiting the factory a few years back. I had no interest in the original guns, but recently handled a bunch and they all looked really nice. They appear to have dialed in on their manufacturing and made some subtle but significant changes that really improved the look. The fit and finish on the newer guns was very, very good. I really liked the 28 ga with 30" bbls and a straight stock. I would buy one today without doubt, but I don't have any money left! :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:10 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
At their price they are competing with sidelocks such as the AyA #2 and that is a very tough comparison - the AyA is a H&H clone and handles much like one.

Nobody I know has one - I sure want to try one out - even if I don't like removable chokes!

_________________
Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:20 am 
Shooting Instructor
Shooting Instructor

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:12 pm
Posts: 4170
Location: Artesia, NM
phideaux_2003 wrote:
Also, is this gun even available with fixed chokes?

Call me old fashioned but I just can't stand screw chokes.


The 16 and 28 ga guns come with fixed chokes, opened to your specs. The 12 and 20 ga guns come with choke tubes.

_________________
Like the 28 Gauge?

Check out the 28 Ga Society! Copy/paste into your URL window:

28gasociety.46.forum er.com

Delete the space between "forum" and "er", and hit the "Enter" key. SGW's softer buggers direct links.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:10 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:36 pm
Posts: 629
I hope your right I bought a consec. numbered pair of 20s.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: CT. Shotunn's RBL; The next Parker
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 6:41 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:20 am
Posts: 427
jwemmer wrote:
Fast forward...I just returned fro my annual dove shoot down in Bolivia. The little RBL was shot over 3000 rounds without internal cleaning / disassembly. PERFECT PERFORMANCE! Needless to say I am quite pleased with the gun.That and the fact that my RBL with nearly 10,000 rounds through it is quickly gaining status to earn the right to use the Parker catch phares of "Old Reliable".


So, forum members what say you?

JW


Did you kill many dove? That, ultimately, is what matters....... I have never been on one of them there South American dove shoots. I've been tempted to go.

Some guys say they kill so many that it is not even fun anymore. Other guys say they are hard to hit. Still, other guys say there are so many that they are hard not to hit. A fourth group seems to stay at the host facility and drink liquor....

One thing I've noticed, a lot of guys go only once. I know four guys who have gone down. Only one of them went back a second time. I wonder the reason.......

Just took delivery of my new 28" 20-gauge RBL late last week (May 2012). Beavertail, straight stock, assisted opening, single trigger. Has a higher comb than most I've hefted. For that, I am grateful. Most CSMC shotguns seem a hair too low for my facial configuration. It's like they all need an additional 1/8". This one, however, seems to fit.

The fact it is mechanically a lot like a SxS SKB/Ithaca is good news as far as I am concerned. Should be very reliable.

Mike



_________________
You don't have to be on a southern plantation to be a slave; if you are dependent upon government entitlements (i.e., welfare) you just have a different slave owner. - Jack Wheeler


Last edited by Rebel Sympathy on Tue May 29, 2012 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 27 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: 00dlez, 2lo8s, acraglass, albatros, aspen60, B-Boy, BGK, bhasser, bigedberg, Bing [Bot], birdshooter, blade57, Bobcat Welding, Bubzola, clayaddiction, creeker, Crossing shot, David McMillen, David S., DavidBDyer, duckhuner101, elatrtbm, Ga. Skeet, GF1, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], Google Feedfetcher, hopper810, Houndog, ithacarick, jharrington, jpwheels, jrmev, kgwolo, mactownbob, maj2693, marshal kane, mike cross, mike orlen, NCMikeR, Noel77, oberlock, Oldman1949, PJDiesel, planecrazy29, rem870hunter, shellback, shortgrub, shotgunhunter225, Steve NY, SuperXThree, TankRIP, tdxm, THE MACHINIST, Virginian, wcampb7899, xsshooter, Yahoo [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice