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 Post subject: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:43 am 
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Location: Orange County, CA
Does anyone have a chart that shows the different shotshell primers and their relationship to each other as far as being switchable in recipies. If I run out of Win209, can I substitute Cheddite, or Remington or ? with my same components or do I have to buy wads to match the primers? Which one is the hottest and how do they stack up with each other moving from hottest to coldest. I use specific recipies and specific components, have Lyman's 1 thru 5 for shotshells, weigh powder drops, etc, just trying to figure out if I have to switch primers do I have to change everything else?
Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:16 am 
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No such chart exists. The reason is this: a primer behaves differently with different sets of components. If you read pages 45-46 in your Lyman's 5th, you'll see a good discussion of this.

The one true-blue primer swap which has been published as being safe is using a Nobel Sport 209 in place of the Win 209.

Beyond that, there are a couple swaps which are almost universal. The Fed 209A and CCI209M are extremely hot, so any medium strength primer should safely substitute for those (although you'll probably lose a bit of velocity). Also, the Rem 209STS is generally milder than the rest, so unless you're at a pressure maximum it'll generally substitute across the board.

Cheddite, Fiocchi, and the rest? There is no carte blanche rule.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:25 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:44 pm
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Location: London, Ontario Canada
Since the Fed 209A and CCI 209M are both considered hot primers can they be swapped with each other? I have a recipe that calls for the 209A which I can't find locally but I have some 209Ms. Just wondering if that would be safe or not?

Thanks

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:28 am 
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LondonDave wrote:
Since the Fed 209A and CCI 209M are both considered hot primers can they be swapped with each other? I have a recipe that calls for the 209A which I can't find locally but I have some 209Ms. Just wondering if that would be safe or not?

I'd consider that 'playing with fire'. They are extremely close in performance, but the recipes that call for them are generally high-pressure.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:04 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:44 pm
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Location: London, Ontario Canada
Shoot2reload wrote:
LondonDave wrote:
Since the Fed 209A and CCI 209M are both considered hot primers can they be swapped with each other? I have a recipe that calls for the 209A which I can't find locally but I have some 209Ms. Just wondering if that would be safe or not?

I'd consider that 'playing with fire'. They are extremely close in performance, but the recipes that call for them are generally high-pressure.


Actually the recipe is with 800-x that calls for the Federal 209A primer and it's very low pressure (6600 psi).

Lead Shot 12 1 1/8 oz. 800-X Fed. 209A WAA12 20 6,600 PSI 1100

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:12 am 
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LondonDave-

In that particular recipe I don't see how it could possibly cause a problem to use the CCI209M. Here's my thinking: SAAMI max for 12ga is 11,500psi. The pressure difference between the CCI209M and Fed 209A is certainly much less than 4,900psi.

Keep in mind though, technically you are delving into uncharted ground. But I'd do it and have no worries.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:23 am 
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LondonDave:

Here is where you can see the advantage of keeping a composition notebook handy at the computer.

Every time you see an equivalency listed, write it down.

I know that you can substitute W209's with CCI 209's, but the Fed 209A seems to be out there somewhat alone and unique, not necessarily "equivalent" to anything, as some components are.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:44 pm
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Location: London, Ontario Canada
Shoot2reload wrote:
LondonDave-

In that particular recipe I don't see how it could possibly cause a problem to use the CCI209M. Here's my thinking: SAAMI max for 12ga is 11,500psi. The pressure difference between the CCI209M and Fed 209A is certainly much less than 4,900psi.

Keep in mind though, technically you are delving into uncharted ground. But I'd do it and have no worries.


Okay thanks. I was thinking with the PSI being so low that it should be safe. There are some 20 ga. loads with the 800-x and Fed 209A primer that have PSI that are up there


Lead Shot 20 7/8 oz. 800-X Fed. 209A WAA20 16.5 9,400 PSI 1200 (this one might be okay)
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. 800-X Fed. 209A WAA20F1 14.5 11,800 PSI 1150 (this one probably too risky)

Thanks,

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:26 am 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:44 pm
Posts: 123
Location: London, Ontario Canada
Shoot2reload wrote:
LondonDave-

In that particular recipe I don't see how it could possibly cause a problem to use the CCI209M. Here's my thinking: SAAMI max for 12ga is 11,500psi. The pressure difference between the CCI209M and Fed 209A is certainly much less than 4,900psi.

Keep in mind though, technically you are delving into uncharted ground. But I'd do it and have no worries.


Okay thanks. I was thinking with the PSI being so low that it should be safe. There are some 20 ga. loads with the 800-x and Fed 209A primer that have PSI that are up there


Lead Shot 20 7/8 oz. 800-X Fed. 209A WAA20 16.5 9,400 PSI 1200 (this one might be okay)
Lead Shot 20 1 oz. 800-X Fed. 209A WAA20F1 14.5 11,800 PSI 1150 (this one probably too risky)

Thanks,

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:58 am 
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By the way LondonDave, since you mentioned that you are aslo wanting to reload some 20 gauge with those Fed 209A primers, I thought I would share this recipe with you:

20 Gauge 2-3/4" Remington STS Hulls,

1 oz. Lead Shot (#6 to #9)

. HS-6 19.5 grains, Primer Fed. 209A, Wad Rem. SP20S, 11,400 PSI @ 1165 fps


/

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"Hmmm, load first ask later, kinda backards ain't it, sport? Where you been anyway?"--------Curly-Nohair




Last edited by Calisto on Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:11 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:44 pm
Posts: 123
Location: London, Ontario Canada
Calisto wrote:
By the way LondonDave, since you mentioned that you are aslo wanting to reload some 20 gauge with those Fed 209A primers, I thought I would share this recipe with you:

20 Gauge 2-3/4" Remington STS Hulls,

1 oz. Lead Shot (#6 to #9)

. HS-6 19.5 grains, Primer Fed. 209A, Wad Rem. SP20, 11,400 PSI @ 1165 fps


/


Calisto,

I actually don't have the Fed 209A primers, that's my problem. I have the CCI 209M. I have a friend that is going to Traverse City Michigan this weekend and he is going to look for some for me.

Thanks for the recipe though. I'll look into trying it if I can get my hands on some of those 209As.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:33 pm 
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Mike-n-CA wrote:
Does anyone have a chart that shows the different shotshell primers and their relationship to each other as far as being switchable in recipies. If I run out of Win209, can I substitute Cheddite, or Remington or ? with my same components or do I have to buy wads to match the primers? Which one is the hottest and how do they stack up with each other moving from hottest to coldest. I use specific recipies and specific components, have Lyman's 1 thru 5 for shotshells, weigh powder drops, etc, just trying to figure out if I have to switch primers do I have to change everything else?
Mike

Oooooh Noooooo, it starts anew! :shock: I await the fall of the hammer :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 12:41 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:13 pm 
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Curly-Nohair wrote:
Oooooh Noooooo, it starts anew! :shock: I await the fall of the hammer :mrgreen:

I thought about that myself, except the Bot only gets activated with the "b" word.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:38 pm 
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Shoot2reload wrote:
Curly-Nohair wrote:
Oooooh Noooooo, it starts anew! :shock: I await the fall of the hammer :mrgreen:

I thought about that myself, except the Bot only gets activated with the "b" word.

I called an ole girlfriend the "B" word and she said that I was a different "B" word. We ain't friends any more!

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:18 pm 
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Curley, et.al.,

It seems obvious that as long as we remain in the current erratic market for availability of components, especially primers, this issue is going to keep surfacing. I think we are in a "grin and bear it" situation.

Personally, I'm going to put on my ruby slippers and click my heels three times and tell Toto that I want to return to the "Land of Available and Cheap Primers". That failing, I think I'll have another rum and coke. DLM's advice from last year that we all should stock up because things were going to become unstable sure makes him look like Cassandra now!

I'm off to find my slippers and/or the booze locker.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Location: Western Washington State, USA
Shoot2reload wrote:
No such chart exists. The reason is this: a primer behaves differently with different sets of components. If you read pages 45-46 in your Lyman's 5th, you'll see a good discussion of this.

The one true-blue primer swap which has been published as being safe is using a Nobel Sport 209 in place of the Win 209.

Beyond that, there are a couple swaps which are almost universal. The Fed 209A and CCI209M are extremely hot, so any medium strength primer should safely substitute for those (although you'll probably lose a bit of velocity). Also, the Rem 209STS is generally milder than the rest, so unless you're at a pressure maximum it'll generally substitute across the board.

Cheddite, Fiocchi, and the rest? There is no carte blanche rule.


I appreciate the reference to Lyman 5. It helps me sort out what I need to know. The Lyman and Hodgdon primer variation test makes interesting reading.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2009 9:47 pm 
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Things are still crazy in the bullet market...A friend of mine went to Walmart last night and said there was 25 boxs of 22LR REmington 550ea...I asked my wife to get me 2 boxes today when she went there...But they were OUT...!!!!!!!!!

What a deal....They were out of everything AGAIN..Last night there were 25 boxes of 550 22lr...15 boxes of 9mm, 15 boxes of 357's and about that much of other pistol ammo...and all is OUT.!!

Dang horders.....I have a few boxes (2) left..but they are for hard times :wink:
I don't think 4 boxes would be considered hording....I just wanted 2 more..!!

Oh well....I picked up a very nice S & W model 17-5 with a 8 3/8" barrel and wanted to plink around with some good Remington 22's...Maybe there will be more in a few dayZ..!


Don2

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Chart
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:20 am 
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Posts: 174
Location: Virginia
bcpifish wrote:
Curley, et.al.,

Personally, I'm going to put on my ruby slippers and click my heels three times and tell Toto that I want to return to the "Land of Available and Cheap Primers". That failing, I think I'll have another rum and coke. DLM's advice from last year that we all should stock up because things were going to become unstable sure makes him look like Cassandra now!

I'm off to find my slippers and/or the booze locker.


Well we all know who is behind the curtain and it ain't Mr. Chaos Theory. Cassandra was a prophet cursed by Apollo so that her prophecies, though true, were fated never to be believed. Alex Jones predicted NineEleven and has even more dire prognostications of things to come. A lot of people thinking things are going ok for them for now, looked the other way and didn't believe him. But now with the military advertising for "Internment Specialist" positions, it is no wonder people are wary, distrusting, and hording.


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