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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 34
What I'm considering, if possible: The mag tube has the threaded portion at end for the screw cap. Turn down that part of tube to remove threads. Ream the inside of new tube extension to fit over the part that's been turned down. If possible leave an equal amount of 'meat' in both parts. Silver solder that slip fit joint.

The extension would be cut so that length comes out right. If necessary I'd allow mag tube cap to extend past barrel, if it was the difference between one more shell fitting in tube. Otherwise cut so that cap is near flush to muzzle.

Of course I have to relocate the magazine tube support to end of barrel. This is the plan......?? I looked for the smilie icon for 1/2 nuts, couldn't find one :?




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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 11:53 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 34
Also as you would see, this method doesn't rely on the receiver end threads of the extension piece at all. Therefore a junk magazine tube with botched threads, otherwise useless, would be ideal!


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 5:53 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:21 pm
Posts: 197
I think it will be tricky to turn down that thin of piece and slip solder the joint, but I suppose it could be done.

There is more than one way to skin a cat.


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 34
You might be right! I haven't even broken it down to take a close look yet, just going by what I see from the outside. Could be real tricky and some other solution might be a whole bunch more practical.


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:37 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:06 pm
Posts: 13
jw4570 is right. If the barrel is already cut down to 18.5" inches, then an 8 round mag (actually it's a seven round mag and then one in the chamber for 8 total) from Ithaca will be too long for the existing 18.5" barrel. Numrich (e-gunparts.com) sells a 20" barrel, in chrome, for about $89. But those are for the later serial #'s. Won't solve your problem. An 8 round mag tube from Ithaca costs $22.95. Just bought one. It does not come with a groove filed in it (the bolt for the yoke lies in this groove and keeps the yoke from accidentally rotating about the mag tube). It's easy to put the groove in yourself once the mage tube is seated, more on that later, FIRMLY in the receiver. My recommendation would be: relocate the barrel lug about 1/2 from the end of the existing 18.5" barrel, buy the 8 round mag tube from Ithaca, cut it and rethread the magazine nut end as jw4570 recommended, you'll then have a 6 round mag tube (+1 in the chamber).

I've just turned my 1972 ithaca 37 featherlight into an 8 shot home defender by buying the mag tube from ithaca and the 20" barrel from Numrich's. Here's what I learned. The original mag tube (4 shot) does unscrew from the receiver, but it's a bear to get out. Penetrating oil overnight+ and the receiver in a padded vise were required. The "8 shot" tube from ithaca fits perfectly into my receiver, thread pitch and all....BUT, here's the catch, it requires serious torquing to fully "seat" the mag tube in the receiver. Picture this: The inside diameter of the receiver just past the female threads is 0.88". The inside diameter of the new mag tube is 0.92". When you screw in the new mag tube this will create a small "lip" that will unfortunately catch shells (before the shells reach the shell stop in the receiver) and prevent them from feeding. After talking with Ithaca I found how they seat the mag tube in the rcvr. They put the new mag tube in a vise with a billet of steel inside the magtube to keep from crushing it. They then screw the receiver onto the vised mag tube and use a long piece of wood or steel stuck in the bottom of the receiver to get enough torque/leverage to actually deform the bottom of that mag tube and crush it down to the smaller 0.88" diameter of the rcvr. Once there is no more "lip" between the mag tube and the receiver, then they ream out and deburr that connection point (between the bottom of the mag tube and where if hits the "seat" in the rcvr). Once the mag tube is truly seated, then you can file the yoke screw groove in the mag tube exactly where you need it to be. Hope this helps. Good Luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 34
Man oh man, a regular gold mine of info! GREAT! Thanks to all for your responses!!

Now, I been a scratchin' the old noggin too.....

Thinking now to get the mag tube, even the cheaper standard length for $17 last I looked. Remove existing tube on gun, cut it down. Cut down the new tube [may order one tonite]. MIG weld the two together, in the area hidden under the corn cob & slide mechanism, finish & reblue.

The MIG weld done properly won't distort things, using a stitch weld. Use a piece of heavy wall copper tubing stuffed inside mag tube pieces for 2 reasons: helps hold alignment in addition to use of a vee block alignment, but more important, MIG weld bead won't stick to copper! That means there's no weld bead lip deposited inside mag tube pieces that would be very difficult to hone true otherwise & which would cause shells to hang.

Yes, reposition lug as far to the end as possible, maybe even trim the lug just a tad. Silver solder that.

Also going to look into a cheapo compensator to add + or - an inch or whatever to barrel so a longer tube could be used without changing barrel. Might be abe to cut down a compensator too, don't know.

Thanks guys, I'll update when I finally get working on it.

.


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:21 pm
Posts: 197
Hmmm. Adding a compensater and soldering the lug to the compensator doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

I like the solution of the longer tube, and having someone thread the end the best. Maybe you can find guy to thread it for a six pack?


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 12:58 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 34
The intended purpose of the compensator is only for aesthetics regarding barrel length in regard to tube. I wouldn't solder the lug to the compensator, all sorts of problems doing that.

I'm sure the tube threading is the best choice for many but in my case I prefer to use what I have and what I can do myself. The simple cut & weld extension of tube & relocation of lug is easiest for me with the least complications. It's more or less the easy way out from this end.


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 5:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:21 pm
Posts: 197
I don't understand why you need the compensator if you are going to put the lug on the barrel. The barrel lug limits the length of the mag tube, so you won't be able to make it an eight shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:06 pm
Posts: 13
>>the barrel lug limits the length of the mag tube<<

ditto the above statement. Since you can only re-locate your barrel lug (at the most) at the 18 1/4" point on an 18 1/2" barrel, you will be unavoidably limited in the length of the mag tube you will be creating/welding. The seven shot mag tube is designed to be paired with a 20" barrel. Your new mag tube creation will not be able to hold the full seven rounds that it would hold if it were paired with a 20" barrel. Because your new mag tube creation will be shorter. It will most likely hold 6 rounds (+ 1 in the chamber) with a little room to spare. Not that you can do anything with that extra room, you can't. IMHO, Relocate the barrel lug first so you can measure distances accurately from the finished location. You'll need accurate measurements from the re-located barrel lug to the receiver to determine exactly how long to make your 'new' mag tube. I'd skip the whole welding two tubes together ordeal, buy the $22.50 seven shot mag tube (ok, they really call it an 8 shot, but it only holds 7+1), have the 'magazine nut end' of the mag tube shortened and re-threaded in a length that will accomodate your re-located barrel lug. Just my 2 cents. BTW, I don't know boo about welding and re-locating barrel lugs. I'm assuming you do and that you know if that will be a strong enough bond to handle hundreds/thousands of 12 ga. recoils. I do have experience changing mag tubes on the Ithaca M37 and turning a 5 shot featherlight with a 26" barrel into a 20" barreled 8 shot home defender.

Also, don't recall if anyone posted this earlier or not, but you'll need a longer mag tube spring. Bought mine from Ithaca for $5.95. You may need to shorten yours a tiny bit because your modified mag tube will be shorter than a full "8 shot" tube, but the difference is small enough that it may not matter. You may not need to shorten it. It's not a super-precision instrument. It's just a spring whose job is to push the shells against the shell stop.

Good luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:06 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 34
Thanks for the replies!

Most of my plan revolves around economics, of the negative variety. Most likely anyone who could rethread the barrel would want the whole gun so I'm sure it would end up costing over $100 before it was all over. Shipping alone gets pricey.

I have 5 3/4" of extra real estate to fool around with, so whatever fits in there is it. 6 plus 1 will do me fine and there's room for that.

Regarding soldering the barrel lug, the guns were originally silver soldered far as I know and regardless it's a very strong weld. It's far different from soft solder of any sort, very durable and able to take high stresses, vibration & temperature variations.

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:06 pm
Posts: 13
>>Most likely anyone who could rethread the barrel would want the whole gun so I'm sure it would end up costing over $100 before it was all over.<<

If I wrote "rethread the barrel" previously, my error. No one's suggesting re-threading a barrel. What I was saying was to rethread one end of the magazine tube. The mag tube is the thin walled tube that looks like a barrel, but simply hold the shells. The wall thickness on this mag tube is approx. .03". It probably wouldn't be very pricey to have a machinist re-thread the magazine nut end of the mag tube for you. You wouldn't need to send the gun anywhere. Just get the tube to the machinist, maybe with the magazine nut that screws on it, so he can check the thread pitch. The threads on that end are not as small (threads per inch) as the other end of the tube (the end that threads into the receiver). Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 34
Sorry, I think I lame-brained it! Nothing confuses me more than me. I meant mag tube, not barrel.

I had no luck discovering the exact thread pitch of the magazine tube, so at the least I would have to bring old one in with the new one to get threads cut.

Thing is, I already have all the equipment right here to cut tubes, weld together properly, finish, and relocate barrel lug. It will be as strong as the original, and near as I can tell the welded joint would not be visible to speak of. It will accomplish the objective at the least cost and give the desired results.

For me the best part is I don't have the extra expense of machine work or any surprises or problems trying to install the tube if threaded by a machinist. Also I live in a remote area without machine shops, so that would be some mileage to get to the city, locate a good machinist [currently unknown], leave off the parts and then drive back to pick them up. From what I've seen most of the machine shops are really proud of their work with prices to match, none of that good old days, "Aw, just gimme 20 bucks and we'll call it good...".

So hopefully this describes my stubborness with my plan, that it seems the most practical under the circumstances. The actual barrel length to breech is 19" and with a cut to shorten barrel lug I have 6-3/16" of additional room for extension. I imagine that will still result in only 2 more in the tube.

Thanks for a lot of very good advice, I do appreciate it! You all have been very helpful. I hope to post the results, whatever they are, in the near future.


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:46 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:21 pm
Posts: 197
Spirit,

I like your idea of making just as long as you can and whatever it holds, it holds.

I think that will make the most eye appealing gun.

If you can weld that good, I say go for it!!!! As I can't. I can weld stuff to my trailer, etc, but thin metal like that, it's difficult. I'm not saying I haven't done it, but only on flat stuff where I could grind A LOT!!!

Anyway, there are a number of guys around on gunboards with lathes, etc that will do work. Heck I had a guy copy a stepped barrel profile for a Mauser barrel. He turned it on a blank I bought for $60 or so. A lot cheaper than I thought it would ever be. But you have to look around. Yeah, a typical machine shop doesn't want to talk to you. You gotta find the semi retired, hobbyist type, and gun friendly of course. IF it would fit in my mini lathe, I would try it for you.

Hey, that's what this thread is all about, thinking it out. When you get done, please post the pic!!!

JW


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:13 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:06 pm
Posts: 13
looking forward to seeing some pics when you're done.


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 Post subject: Re: Magazine tube extension model 37
PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:47 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 34
Thanks, fellas, you've been very helpful to me!! You would see that my thinking changed throughout the thread because of good info coming back at me.

Now I may do a 180 hah! JW, you jogged my suffering grey matter, one of those, 'Hey, wait a minute..'

I just remembered that my friend Charlie mentioned that the guy next door to him was a machinist, 'He's got all that stuff in his garage, you know....'

Hmmmm, yeah, I know: maybe I'll tear this down & pay him a visit! He's retired and mid 70's, looks like he might have had a stroke that caused the retirement. Yard full of tinkering projects, might be just the guy.

So, I will give it a shot in that direction, and if no go then fire up the MIG. By the way, the only reason I'm able to successfully weld this thin tube is thanks to my trusty old Miller 200 wire feed. It's all the difference in the world on thin metals, makes difficult seem easy!

Thanks guys!!
Spirit 1




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