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 Post subject: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:55 pm 
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I searched and didn't find this topic.

Any reason this isn't common on Tactical/HD shotguns? Seem like you could go out a couple shell lengths past the barrel or more without any chance of have a mag tube hit by any shot. I mean bayonets on rifles stick out much farther than that.


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:01 pm 
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Mostly its 3gun shooters. Having a tube longer than the barrel negates the original purpose of the short barrel.

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:05 pm 
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There are a few breaching devices that consist of a long magazine tube that sticks out past the barrel a couple of inches and have spikes on the end.


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:33 pm 
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gspam1 wrote:
I searched and didn't find this topic.

Any reason this isn't common on Tactical/HD shotguns? Seem like you could go out a couple shell lengths past the barrel or more without any chance of have a mag tube hit by any shot. I mean bayonets on rifles stick out much farther than that.


The general consensus is that you want the shortest barrel possible without significantly compromising velocity. As was said previously, having the longer tube negates this.

Most people don't run around with bayonets fixed for home defense. Hell, in the mil, the only time bayonets are used is for training for SHTF situations.

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:51 pm 
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alt154shiver wrote:
Most people don't run around with bayonets fixed for home defense. Hell, in the mil, the only time bayonets are used is for training for SHTF situations.

I thought they were crat openers (MREs to you kids)

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:00 pm 
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Actually, the new MRE pouches are capable of being opened without a knife... using a knife is just easier...

:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:30 pm 
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Muzzle strikes are best done with the muzzle, not the mag tube you want to feed ammo from.

My 3gun Remy 1100 has a tube ~2" longer than the barrel but its for games only.

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:13 pm 
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Another thing to consider about extended mag tubes beyond the mag tube is that they can affect the pointability and balance of the SG. Extra rounds past the muzzle will make the SG nose heavy.


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:22 pm 
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Well, if it it's a winner in 3gun, why not home defense? Aren't speed and accuracy important in 3gun? I'd rather have more rounds already in the magazine than in a shell carrier.


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:24 pm 
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el Gaucho wrote:
Another thing to consider about extended mag tubes beyond the mag tube is that they can affect the pointability and balance of the SG. Extra rounds past the muzzle will make the SG nose heavy.

no more heavy than a longer barrel with a full length mag extension. In fact, you don't have the weight of the extra barrel, so if anything, it's lighter.


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:28 pm 
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gspam1 wrote:
Well, if it it's a winner in 3gun, why not home defense? Aren't speed and accuracy important in 3gun? I'd rather have more rounds already in the magazine than in a shell carrier.


Three gun tends not to be done in really tight confines. As a result, longer magazines that stick out further and hold more shells are an advantage. In the tight confines of a house, I'd want the shortest barrel length possible, and with that goal, a magazine that sticks out past is pointless.


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:29 pm 
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gspam1 wrote:
Well, if it it's a winner in 3gun, why not home defense?

Two different animals. There are no "rules" in home defense and you usually do not have very much sympathetic nervous system activation in 3 gun.

What is it, "Give FMD an aneurysm day"? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:49 pm 
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sjohnny wrote:
What is it, "Give FMD an aneurysm day"? :lol:

So does that mean that I shouldn't start a thread about 16" LOP stocks and the advantages of smaller beads? :twisted:


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:08 am 
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I'm taking the light and sling off my gun as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:11 am 
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sjohnny wrote:
I'm taking the light and sling off my gun as well.

Yeah and I'm going to stock up on #8's and use my XXfull turkey choke so it acts like a slug. :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 12:21 pm 
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This is a sport specific niche that has no purpose whatsoever on a HD shotgun.

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:41 pm 
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Ezra Smack wrote:
This is a sport specific niche that has no purpose whatsoever on a HD shotgun.


That's a strong statement. You can't envision a single scenario where a higher capacity magazine might be helpful in a home defense situation? I'm guessing you're a single shot shotgun advocate.


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:49 pm 
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Just an additional note: The new/proposed IDPA 3-gun rules (proposal 8 I believe) state the magtube must not extend beyond the barrel and the max loadout is 5+1 thus excluding the requirement for pretty well any mag extension, i.e. back to basics.

This has nothing to do with other 3-gun competitions where almost anything goes in certain classes.


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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 2:36 pm 
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gspam1 wrote:
Ezra Smack wrote:
This is a sport specific niche that has no purpose whatsoever on a HD shotgun.


That's a strong statement. You can't envision a single scenario where a higher capacity magazine might be helpful in a home defense situation? I'm guessing you're a single shot shotgun advocate.

Extra capacity=good
Extra length=bad
I can't think of a single defensive situation where a longer gun would be helpful.

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 Post subject: Re: Mag tubes longer than barrel?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:38 pm 
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According to a number of experts, including agencies such as the NYPD, a 14" barrel is the best trade off between barrel length and magazine capacity for a "social" shotgun. That allows for a capacity of 5+1. A mossberg cut flush with the end of the magazine tube is 14". On Remingtons, if you cut the barrel flush to the end of a +1 extension, that gives you 14". Now, if you consider that your average HD gun is longer than 14", then shorter is better.

On purpose built 3 gun type shotguns, capacity is more important than barrel length, so you have people setting up tactical guns with barrels in the 24"-26" territory, and using full length magazine extensions that give a total capacity of 10 or more. Some people are even using Saigas loaded with 20 and 30 round drums. The advantage to this of course is that you can still have a short OAL, despite the massive magazine capacity, and the extra weight of ammunition sits closer to the COM of the gun, instead of way out near the muzzle.

If you were only going to use a particular shotgun in a setting where it was wide open and you could easily swing a 26" barrel, then the ammunition capacity would be nice. However, I'd rather have a shorter barrel with lower capacity in a place where I could have a gun that is longer with a higher capacity, than have the longer barrel in a place where the extra length gets in the way.


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