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 Post subject: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:07 pm 
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I did a little test today on the question: "I know sabot slugs are designed to be used with rifled shotgun barrels, but can they be used effectively with a smooth bore barrel?"

Here it is:

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot46.htm

:D

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:12 pm 
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Thank you!

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 7:27 pm 
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Another top shelf post OP !!!

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 8:15 pm 
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OP, as always, very informative.

If the Sabot for the Quick-shok slugs was still attached to the slug when it hit the target, I wonder if it acted like the plastic tail on a Brenneke to stabilize it slightly, which might explain the slight increase in accuracy and lack of key holes.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:45 pm 
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Thanks O_P, always appreciated.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 2:41 am 
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Thanks O-P exellent post!

I can't help but wonder what difference it might have made to have a scope on a smoothbore also!

No offence but the bead sight compared to a scope is kind of apples oranges LOL! .... At least it would be with my old eyes! LOL!

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:40 am 
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Huntinfool wrote:
Thanks O-P exellent post!

I can't help but wonder what difference it might have made to have a scope on a smoothbore also!

No offence but the bead sight compared to a scope is kind of apples oranges LOL! .... At least it would be with my old eyes! LOL!

~HF~


I completely agree with you. I even pointed out in the thread how difficult it is to aim with only a bead front sight. It covers a lot of target at 50 yards. At 100 yards, it is almost impossible to do serious work with one.

The scope helped a lot.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 7:44 am 
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I have a Mossberg 500 with a 20" cylinder bore barrel and a bead front sight. I can average 4" groups at 50 yards with both Federal and Winchester rifled slugs. The federal are closer to point of aim than the Winchester for some reason. I was going to buy a rifled barrel for deer until I saw the accuracy of the smoothbore. The woods I will use this gun in are too thick to see farther than 50 yards anyway. The rifled barrel would be over half the price of the gun. I just have to remember to put the plug in before hunting.


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:42 am 
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fistmil wrote:
I have a Mossberg 500 with a 20" cylinder bore barrel and a bead front sight. I can average 4" groups at 50 yards with both Federal and Winchester rifled slugs. The federal are closer to point of aim than the Winchester for some reason. I was going to buy a rifled barrel for deer until I saw the accuracy of the smoothbore. The woods I will use this gun in are too thick to see farther than 50 yards anyway. The rifled barrel would be over half the price of the gun. I just have to remember to put the plug in before hunting.


I honestly believe that 4 inches at 50 yards with a smooth bore, rifled slugs, and a bead sight is pretty good shooting.

I doubt that any deer will ask for a refund. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 3:51 am 
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Thank you very much for these tests, Old_Painless.

The 3" Remington Premier® Copper Solid™ Sabot Slugs are .68 caliber solid copper hollow-point 2X-expansion bullets. About 4 years ago I decided that the 3" Remington Copper Solid™ sabots would expand and make really big holes so I bought a few boxes. I called Remington and I asked if the accuracy of these sabots would be unacceptable from a smoothbore barrel at short distances. The Remington representative asked me what distance did I have in mind, and I answered, About 50 feet. There was a pause and he said, No, there won't be any problem with accuracy from a smoothbore at that distance! I figured that they will go through leather, denim, winter coats, hogs, cars...

Notice that in Old_Painless' tests, 60% (3 of 5) of the Copper Solid™ Sabot Slugs did NOT keyhole even at 50 yards from a smoothbore barrel. So at 50'-75' or less from a smoothbore barrel, the 3" Copper Solid™ Sabot Slugs have acceptable accuracy, the hollow-point will strike first as intended, and they will expand more than any other slug!

I rely on my handguns for indoor HD. If I have to go outside with a shotgun, my ready load is 3" Remington Premier® Copper Solid™ Sabot Slugs, backed up with a shellbelt of Federal LE-132 FliteControl 00 buckshot, accurate to 35 yards, and Brenneke K.O. slugs, accurate to 60 yards. My judgment is that if I am ever in a conflict with BGs firing at me from over 50 yards away, there has been a complete breakdown of law and order, and I need rifle ammunition. When law and order is restored, I will still have to justify my decisions. And those difficult decisions must be made on-the-fly, knowing in advance that a prosecutor might later try to persuade a jury that I lied when I said that I felt that I had been lethally threatened by a BG situated where the 50 yard target is in Old_Painless' photograph.

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 8:35 am 
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wfb18 wrote:
Thank you very much for these tests, Old_Painless.


You are certainly welcome. :)

Quote:
The 3" Remington Premier® Copper Solid™ Sabot Slugs are .68 caliber solid copper hollow-point 2X-expansion bullets. About 4 years ago I decided that the 3" Remington Copper Solid™ sabots would expand and make really big holes so I bought a few boxes. I called Remington and I asked if the accuracy of these sabots would be unacceptable from a smoothbore barrel at short distances. The Remington representative asked me what distance did I have in mind, and I answered, About 50 feet. There was a pause and he said, No, there won't be any problem with accuracy from a smoothbore at that distance!


I disagree with the reprsentative only in the fact that at 50 feet "accuracy" may be acceptable, but "terminal ballistics" will suffer.

Will it still kill a deer? I'm sure it would. But why pay the extra money for a sabot, if it is not going to hit front forward and expand properly? Might as well shoot cheaper slugs.

Quote:
Notice that in Old_Painless' tests, 60% (3 of 5) of the Copper Solid™ Sabot Slugs did NOT keyhole even at 50 yards from a smoothbore barrel.


Actually, I took a close-up of those two holes because they were close together. Four of the 5 rounds were keyholing, and the fifth made a fairly symetrical hole, but I do not know if it went in frontwards or backwards.

Quote:
I rely on my handguns for indoor HD. If I have to go outside with a shotgun, my ready load is 3" Remington Premier® Copper Solid™ Sabot Slugs, backed up with a shellbelt of Federal LE-132 FliteControl 00 buckshot, accurate to 35 yards, and Brenneke K.O. slugs, accurate to 60 yards. My judgment is that if I am ever in a conflict with BGs firing at me from over 50 yards away, there has been a complete breakdown of law and order, and I need rifle ammunition. When law and order is restored, I will still have to justify my decisions. And those difficult decisions must be made on-the-fly, knowing in advance that a prosecutor might later try to persuade a jury that I lied when I said that I felt that I had been lethally threatened by a BG situated where the 50 yard target is in Old_Painless' photograph.



People often say, "I can't think of any reason to shoot at someone at 50 yards." But if someone is shooting at me from 50 yards, I will return fire and it will be completely justified.

And if all I have is a shotgun, I hope I have some slugs. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:50 am 
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I wish you had used Buckhammers.

Nice post!


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 Post subject: Re: Shotgun Slugs, Sabots, and Smooth Bore Barrels
PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Hellfish33 wrote:
I wish you had used Buckhammers.

Nice post!


Well, at least I saw some of them at Gander Mountain. I hear good things about Buckhammers.

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