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 Post subject: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:07 pm
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What 12 gauge pump riot gun(s) is(are) considered the best for bringing to bear with sufficient accuracy on multiple targets in rapid succession?

I am especially interested in the classic pumps.

I love my Model 12 but it seems a bit slow because of its bulk.

Thanks



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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2004 7:04 pm
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The one the user is trained to use efficiently. It doesn't matter what model the gun is (870, 500, 590, 1300, Nova, SuperNova, 37, BPS, or something else). There are so many quality pump action shotguns on the market that really isn't the deciding factor. The user must be efficient and effective at using whatever model shotgun they choose to defend themselves with. The choice between the various designs is more personal preference than anything else.

If you like classic riot guns look at the Winchester 1897, Remington 10, and Ithica 37. Hard to go wrong with a Remington 870, Mossberg 590, Winchester 1300, Browning BPS, or Benelli SuperNova. Just try them all out and see which one fits you best. Also note the position of the safety, action release, and any other controls. Then make a decision.

Andrew


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:51 pm 
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ask 12 different people, get 20 different opinions....


I agree with everything Andrew said. Pump guns are pretty hard to screw up, so pretty much any of them will work fine. Try as many as possible, and choose the one that feels best for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:17 pm 
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I agree with what was said about personal preference. The "Best" gun is the one which encourages you to practice the most.

That said, I was wondering if there was any consensus as to which pump is favored by the most shooters as being the best at hitting multiple targets in rapid succession.

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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 11:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:22 pm
Posts: 407
I have a model 12 "trench gun" and after a bit of cleaning and light lubrication, its a smooth shooter.
(cut down a non-ribbed model 12 from college that had a dented barrel and put on a WWI heat shield and mag plug)

That said, maybe have it checked out before you go crazy like I did. Mine had no value but to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 12:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 487
Location: Baltimore, MD.
Which ever one goes boom. That's my suggestion.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:09 am 
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Joined: Fri Mar 06, 2009 5:37 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Newark DE
something like this is 90% a question of personal skill and training, not necessarly what pump action gun you use


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 7:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 6:18 pm
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Location: The Republic of Texas
Bushmaster1313 wrote:
I was wondering if there was any consensus as to which pump is favored by the most shooters as being the best at hitting multiple targets in rapid succession.

The one in your hands when you need it.

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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 8:48 am 
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Reduced-recoil loads will help with fast followup shots. Some people think porting helps, but many don't. Some folks find that guns with extended tubes/heavy barrels/full sidesaddles are harder to manuever quickly. Some professionals prefer 14" barrels. Proper fit makes a difference as does your choice of sights.

But the biggest factor is going to be training and practice.

As with so many skills, trying to be fast can be counterproductive. Work on being smooth and speed will come.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:20 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:41 pm
Posts: 647
Location: central oklahoma
amblackm wrote:
The one the user is trained to use efficiently. It doesn't matter what model the gun is (870, 500, 590, 1300, Nova, SuperNova, 37, BPS, or something else). There are so many quality pump action shotguns on the market that really isn't the deciding factor. The user must be efficient and effective at using whatever model shotgun they choose to defend themselves with. The choice between the various designs is more personal preference than anything else.

If you like classic riot guns look at the Winchester 1897, Remington 10, and Ithica 37. Hard to go wrong with a Remington 870, Mossberg 590, Winchester 1300, Browning BPS, or Benelli SuperNova. Just try them all out and see which one fits you best. Also note the position of the safety, action release, and any other controls. Then make a decision.

Andrew


I've found that the fit of the shotgun, as well as training time, makes more difference that the actual gun being used as long as the gun is in good condition, granted some actions are faster that others. Most shotguns come from the factory with a stock that is way too long for fast shooting like I think you're talking about.

Some will recommend shotguns without disconnects like the Mod 12 and Mod '97 Winchesters and Ithaca Mod 37, I don't. Slam firing a gun for speed is certainly fast, but takes more training to master accurately than one that has one.

A good 870 Remington or 590 Mossberg will take care of most shooters, I prefer the 870. I have little practical experience with the Benelli Nova so I won't comment one way or another.

Just my $.02

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 9:35 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:41 pm
Posts: 647
Location: central oklahoma
Bushmaster1313 wrote:
I was wondering if there was any consensus as to which pump is favored by the most shooters as being the best at hitting multiple targets in rapid succession.



I'm not trying to be a smart a$$, so please don't take it that way. What you're asking here has much more to do with the shooter than the gun. I can "dump" five rounds out of my 870 in about 1.75 seconds. Hitting five seperated targets, about 24" apart, slows me down to about 2.30 seconds plus or minus depending on my day :wink: . I consider anything under 2.50 fast, under 2.25 very fast, and anything under 2.00 you're blazing. I've only broke 2.20 once with a pump.

I recommend you get a good 870 or 590, again I prefer the 870, and a 25 round box of dummy ammo from Brownell's or other supplier. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=6811/Product/SHOTGUN_ACTION_PROVING_DUMMIES Using these for practice in your speed loading and cycling the action will save you tons of money on ammo and range fees, plus you can practice at home, and by the time you've worn them out your gun will be slick as snot and you'll have the motions down pretty good. {hs# When I teach a shotgun class these are on the list of needed equipment, if you show up without them I'll sell you a box. :wink: I wear out about two boxes a year myself.

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 10:44 am 
Quote:
That said, I was wondering if there was any consensus as to which pump is favored by the most shooters as being the best at hitting multiple targets in rapid succession.

+1 what Rob said. Sorry, but you're just not going to get the answer you're looking for. This is a shooter issue, not gun issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:50 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 15, 2008 11:07 pm
Posts: 939
PeteCamp wrote:
Quote:
That said, I was wondering if there was any consensus as to which pump is favored by the most shooters as being the best at hitting multiple targets in rapid succession.

+1 what Rob said. Sorry, but you're just not going to get the answer you're looking for. This is a shooter issue, not gun issue.


This is bad news
I will need to get one of each :D

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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:23 pm 
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NHrural wrote:
As with so many skills, trying to be fast can be counterproductive. Work on being smooth and speed will come.


I've said just about those exact same words to every single person that I've taught how to play guitar or bass over the last 13 years. Words to live by.

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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 4:57 pm 
Quote:
This is bad news
I will need to get one of each

AMEN....let us retire to the toy store! :P


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2009 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:29 am
Posts: 487
Location: Baltimore, MD.
PeteCamp wrote:
Quote:
This is bad news
I will need to get one of each

AMEN....let us retire to the toy store! :P


Yep, i'm down like four flat tires. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2009 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:41 pm
Posts: 647
Location: central oklahoma
Bushmaster1313 wrote:
PeteCamp wrote:
Quote:
That said, I was wondering if there was any consensus as to which pump is favored by the most shooters as being the best at hitting multiple targets in rapid succession.

+1 what Rob said. Sorry, but you're just not going to get the answer you're looking for. This is a shooter issue, not gun issue.


This is bad news
I will need to get one of each :D


THAT is the correct answer! :lol:

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 1:31 am 
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NHrural wrote:
As with so many skills, trying to be fast can be counterproductive. Work on being smooth and speed will come.



Anonymous CQB instructor I once had: wrote:
Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 27, 2009 12:01 pm 
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Here's an interesting article about improving speed:
http://pistol-training.com/articles/speed-kills


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 Post subject: Re: Best pump riot gun for bringing to bear on multiple targets?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:09 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:08 pm
Posts: 21
Location: Woodbridge, VA
multiple targets means you need a semi. Once you have one you will never go back to pump.

try the mossberg 930spx.




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