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 Post subject: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:14 am 
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There has been a lot of discussions about one primer or another being used thats to large or to small. "Use brand XYZ an it stretches the primer pocket, then if you try to use brand ABC primers they will fall out".

Here is a list of primer sizes that was published in the October, 2009 issue of Skeet Shooting Review that might helpful to some that haven't seen it.

Point A was taken at the top of the primer. Point B was taken as close to the base flange as possible.

Primer Brand Point A Point B
CCI .239" .241"
Cheddite .238" .243"
Federal .242" .241"
Fiocchi .243" .243"
Nobel Sport .242" .242"
Remington .241" .240"
Rio .245" .244"
Winchester .236" .242"
Wolf .238" .242"

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:18 am 
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THank you very much for posting this up. I have bookmarked it for future use!!

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:56 am 
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The one thing missing is the height of the primers.

If someone has the time, them mic the primers you are using from the bottom of the base to the top of the primer so we can incorporate that into the sizes as well.

Also, regarding tapering or step in's on the top sections more detail would be nice as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:46 am 
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Dano523 wrote:
The one thing missing is the height of the primers.

If someone has the time, them mic the primers you are using from the bottom of the base to the top of the primer so we can incorporate that into the sizes as well.

Also, regarding tapering or step in's on the top sections more detail would be nice as well.


I have three of them;
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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:16 pm 
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JT passed this on to me, so I will add it to the list as well. This is almost everything on the primers, short of the top tapers beginning points, such as on the Win primers.

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 3:30 pm 
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EyeMissum wrote:
There has been a lot of discussions about one primer or another being used thats to large or to small. "Use brand XYZ an it stretches the primer pocket, then if you try to use brand ABC primers they will fall out".

Here is a list of primer sizes that was published in the October, 2009 issue of Skeet Shooting Review that might helpful to some that haven't seen it.

Point A was taken at the top of the primer. Point B was taken as close to the base flange as possible.

Primer Brand Point A Point B
CCI .239" .241"
Cheddite .238" .243"
Federal .242" .241"
Fiocchi .243" .243"
Nobel Sport .242" .242"
Remington .241" .240"
Rio .245" .244"
Winchester .236" .242"
Wolf .238" .242"


"EyeMissum"...... Good info to know! Thanks, DBTED :)


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:39 pm 
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The image below is the table from which EyeMissum obtained the data. The publisher of the magazines gave permission for it to be posted here.
--Bob

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:36 pm 
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pitted bore wrote:
The image below is the table from which EyeMissum obtained the data. The publisher of the magazines gave permission for it to be posted here.
--Bob

Image


"pitted bore" Great info, thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:54 pm 
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Double check this chart with your actual "in your hot little hand" primers and see just exactly how accurate it is.

Do not be surprised it it is not spot on.

BP

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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 1:33 pm 
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I have seen this chart in the past and did cut and paste it. I think it is fine that it gets posted again because it is a popular discussion topic. I USED to take it as gospel. However, as I studied it some questions started to arise so I spent some time doing exactly as BP suggests. By the time I had finished with one W209, one R209STS, and one Fed209A I realized it is a lot more complicated than this chart implies. Primers are not round and by most machinist standards, are not even close to round. They probably are reasonably round for a pressed out piece of sheet metal. They are also round enough to work for what they are intended to do. If I had a few of each of the primers listed in the chart and spent some time with a micrometer I could get most of them to measure the dimension listed for most of the others. What this chart does not specify is how the measurements were taken (with what instrument) and how many measurements were taken. Based on just the diameters that I measured, you really don't know anything unless you measure several diameters (maybe 90 degrees apart and maybe 45 apart) and do a lot of averaging. You could do all of this, you could average, and you could specify high and low. BUT, unless you know the dimensions of the primer pocket it is going into, how round it is, and the relationship between the two, you still don't know much.

I DO NOT mean to say the chart is wrong. It is probably a good general guideline but you sure cannot say primer x is 0.001 bigger than primer Y. W209 primers are skinnier on the end as the chart shows. This is obvious when you look at them and it is obvious when seating them. I have had a few instances where primers were so loose that you could push one in with your finger. This happened with Remington primers in Federal hulls (that had previously had Federal primers). This certainly was not on all the hulls but was on some. The chart does indicate that this might happen with this combo.

I have not tried it and do not have the correct machine tools, but I suspect there is a lot of variation in the primer pockets. I would not be surprised that if you looked at brass head versus steel head and ring type sizer versus collet type sizer you would see variations in the primer pocket as big or bigger than what the chart shows for primers.

Curly has posted pictures of the primer pocket on some Remington hulls and they make it clear that a primer that does not have the large radius that is on a Remington primer will not fit well, even if it is the same diameter as a Remington primer.


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 Post subject: Re: Primer Sizes
PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2011 2:29 pm 
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albatros wrote:
I have seen this chart in the past and did cut and paste it. I think it is fine that it gets posted again because it is a popular discussion topic. I USED to take it as gospel. However, as I studied it some questions started to arise so I spent some time doing exactly as BP suggests. By the time I had finished with one W209, one R209STS, and one Fed209A I realized it is a lot more complicated than this chart implies. Primers are not round and by most machinist standards, are not even close to round. They probably are reasonably round for a pressed out piece of sheet metal. They are also round enough to work for what they are intended to do. If I had a few of each of the primers listed in the chart and spent some time with a micrometer I could get most of them to measure the dimension listed for most of the others. What this chart does not specify is how the measurements were taken (with what instrument) and how many measurements were taken. Based on just the diameters that I measured, you really don't know anything unless you measure several diameters (maybe 90 degrees apart and maybe 45 apart) and do a lot of averaging. You could do all of this, you could average, and you could specify high and low. BUT, unless you know the dimensions of the primer pocket it is going into, how round it is, and the relationship between the two, you still don't know much.

I DO NOT mean to say the chart is wrong. It is probably a good general guideline but you sure cannot say primer x is 0.001 bigger than primer Y. W209 primers are skinnier on the end as the chart shows. This is obvious when you look at them and it is obvious when seating them. I have had a few instances where primers were so loose that you could push one in with your finger. This happened with Remington primers in Federal hulls (that had previously had Federal primers). This certainly was not on all the hulls but was on some. The chart does indicate that this might happen with this combo.


I have not tried it and do not have the correct machine tools, but I suspect there is a lot of variation in the primer pockets. I would not be surprised that if you looked at brass head versus steel head and ring type sizer versus collet type sizer you would see variations in the primer pocket as big or bigger than what the chart shows for primers.

Curly has posted pictures of the primer pocket on some Remington hulls and they make it clear that a primer that does not have the large radius that is on a Remington primer will not fit well, even if it is the same diameter as a Remington primer.


"albatros"........ Excellent comments and right on! DBTED :)


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