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 Post subject: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:20 pm 
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A friend just asked me to clean up a 16 gauge Model 58. I've never worked on one before, and it isn't listed in "Shotguns: Part V, my "Bible"; it looks superficially like an 1100.

Does anyone know of any quirks in taking it apart to clean? I assume there's a gas port under the barrel, like the 1100. Any parts that should be looked at closely or replaced? I'm pretty much a novice at this, as you can tell, and I'm doing it just as a favor and for the fun of it. Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:46 pm 
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The 58 trigger group drops out in the same manner as all newer Remington shotguns- remove two through pins and pull out. Removing the trigger group should allow you access to the bolt assy, which you can blow out with Gun Scrubber and relube. CAUTION: 58's are prone to having the shell stop stakes pull loose (870's can do this also), and getting the darned things back in is a serious pain in the rump. You will have to have a 'smith restake them, restake them yourself (the tool is around $25.00), or reinstall unstaked, which works but requires three hands.

The barrel gas ports can easily be cleaned with a drill bit (#47, I think) clamped in a pair of Vise Grips. Unless the gun is not working properly, I'd skip pulling the gas piston assy apart, as it's easy to catapult the piston/spring across the room, and getting the yoke stud back into the piston is a bit of a balancing act.

The 58's guts are an interesting and not-too-complicated study in engineering, and if you are mechanically inclined and patient should present no serious challenges. On the other hand, there's Gun Scrubber....
John


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:04 am 
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Excellent advice--especially the Gun Scrubber! I'll take out the trigger group, clean up the gas cylinder, and see if that does the trick.
I think I remember this gun, now. When I was a boy, a friend of my Dad's had a Remington automatic; that would be about the era when this gun was made, '57-'63. What I also recall was that he had fits with it; it wouldn't eject shells, if it was the least bit dirty--he had to clean it after every dove hunt. Maybe that's what led to the 1100 replacing it?
Anyway, thanks very much for the tips. I feel better about diving in.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 1:00 pm 
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Interesting... my Dad's 58 runs like a top most of the time, the only exception being (weird as it sounds) after the gas system is cleaned it will fail to cycle once or twice in the first 50 rounds, and then 100% reliable thereafter. Maybe your Dad's buddy was keeping his too clean!:lol:

JW


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 8:17 am 
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Too clean--wouldn't that be ironic! While I have an expert "on the phone," let me follow up a bit. The same fellow that gave me this one to clean also gave me a Remington Model 11; it is enough like my Browning A-5 that I know it will be a good idea in cleaning it to remove the stock and clean out the spring that goes into it. Is there any such need on the Model 58, or are all the parts needing cleaning "up front"?

While I am reminiscing, my first automatic, back when I was an impoverished grad student in the 60's, was an old Model 11; but that one had the safety in front of the trigger guard, while the one I'm looking at now has it behind, like the A-5. I wonder why Remington ever went with the in-front version? It was all right on doves, but I invariably fumbled it (being used to an Ithaca 37) on quail. Back when there were quail in Virginia.


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:59 am 
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Hi Beach:

I'm hardly an expert, but thanks for the compliment :wink:

The 58's action spring is up front inside the magazine tube (so only two rounds magazine capacity), which is why you have to be careful when you pull the gas system apart; once you get the bolt carrier yoke stud out of the gas piston, there's this big ol' compressed spring right behind the piston and only your finger keeping it from punching a hole in the drywall across the room! The 58 stock is just a piece of wood & a bolt, exactly like the 870, and in fact 870 stocks will fit 58's in a pinch.

On the R11's I have one in the gunsafe that I dated back to 1907 mfg, & it also has the safety inside the trigger guard. I'm not too keen on the location, but it's robust, unlike (I've heard) some of the later R11 crossbolt safeties. The old gal shoots like a champ, too!

Good luck on your 58 project- should be fun.

JW


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2004 7:18 pm 
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"I'm really glad we had this talk"--because I had no clue at all! I had previously pulled the end cap off, and wondered a bit at the appearance--I was thinking it was like the 1100, with room in there for four shells. I have had the unfortunate experience with my A-5 of seeing the spring holder and the magazine spring suddenly sail across a corn field; but this sounds like it might be an order of magnitude stronger than that fiasco, so I really do not want a repeat, scaled up!


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2004 8:53 am 
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Good luck, Beach. Have fun!

JW


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 10:17 pm 
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I finally got around to cleaning up that Sportsman 58. All the advice came in handy--I managed to disassemble, clean and reassemble the gas piston without taking out my eye or the dry-wall. I discovered that I don't have a shred of a buffer, so I am ordering one from David Snoap.

As I took the trigger group out, the left shell latch fell out. Is that the same part that J Wiley refers to as the shell stop? And a broader, and very naive question: What is a "stake," and what is meant by "staking"? I surmise it might be akin to peening; but that's a guess. In any case, I think with my wife's help, I can get this one back in place; but I'd like to know.
Beach004


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2004 11:01 pm 
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Hi Beach:

You are dead on, the 'shell stop' and 'shell latch' are the same part- long pieces of steel with some spring temper that sit in recesses in the receiver. It's quite common for them to come out, so don't feel bad!

The term 'staking' is indeed very similar to 'peening'. There might be a machinists' definition between the two words, but to you & I they are nearly the same thing.

Have fun with your 58!

John

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:34 pm 
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Got the buffer part in. It's a conical piece of hard plastic. I had already put the action spring back in, and doing so was enough of a pain in the neck that I didn't want to disconnect it so I could use the bolt as a "hammer" to seat the buffer, as the vendor, David Snoap, helpfully recommended. So I put the buffer in place, cone toward the stock, and using a small hammer tapped it into place. It fits quite tightly, maybe because this is a 16 gauge, and perhaps the buffers are one size fits all? My question is, do I need to do anything else, or can I reassemble and then fire a couple of rounds to finish off the seating? RogMatt, you out there?
Beach004


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 1:53 pm 
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After putting the buffer in, you should be able to re-assemble and go. Sounds like you have had this thing apart long enough. Ours did fine. David told me the buffer should last me the rest of my lifetime. Now go find yourself a 48 and we can help each other again. I am doing that now.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 3:49 pm 
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:cry: :cry:
I got it all put back together, unstaked shell stop and all; I then loaded a shell in the chamber, and worked the bolt; and the shell stayed in the chamber! Only then did I notice that the shell extractor is broken off!! :oops: Is this pathetic, or what?!?
I have just written D. Snoap to see if he has one of these, as well; but I wonder if I have the mechanical cleverness to take the bolt apart and put this part in. Anybody done this step? Is the bolt enough like that of the 1100, that I could follow the breakdown instructions for that gun, on this one?
Beach004


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2004 4:09 pm 
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Sorry Buddy, I can't help you on this one. Although if it were me I would try to take it apart, make sure I did not lose any parts, and try to install the extractor, If I could not, then call around to gunsmiths and get the best price on re-assembly of the bolt with the new part. Hang in there, keep me updated.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 1:57 pm 
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Good news/bad news. I got the bolt out of the 58; and David Snoap has the extractor for me, in the mail. And, I was able to get the old broken extractor out. But when I took the bolt apart (well, actually it pretty much fell apart), I found inside it a tiny pin, just lying there. It's 4.6mm long, with a head 3.2mm in diameter, and the body 2.5mm in diameter; so it looks like a machine screw, except it's not threaded, and there is no slot in the head. The only place I can see where it might have come from is the Locking Block Assembly (LBA), which has a 2.5mm hole on the right side, and says in the parts diagram it has a "locking block stud." I don't know what function it would serve, but that's no sign it doesn't belong there!

Here's my question; and unless you know this gun intimately, I don't suppose it will be comprehensible. If I put this stud into that hole, then the LBA can only be put back into the bolt from below, not from above--it won't fit, the stud will block its descent. But to come up from below, which would allow the stud to slide into a cavity on the right side of the bolt that "comes up" from the bottom of the bolt, I will need to remove the firing pin assembly. This, I have very little idea how to do and would very much rather not!

So, as I missing something? My diagrams for Model 1100 and 11-48 are helpful but not definitive. I wonder how long that stud has been out of this gun? I don't know if the gun was in shooting condition when I got it--another mark of my amateur status. I know one thing: It sure wouldn't extract a shell!
Beach004


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:37 pm 
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Updating my own note (does that count?). Looking carefully at Wood's indespensable book, at the 11-87 and 1100, I can see both how to get the firing pin out, and that, in fact, the locking block is taken out and replaced, from below, once the firing pin is removed. This gun is by way of being an education...Though I know if I mentioned how I finally found out, my computer-geek friends would say with a mild sneer, " next time, RTFM!" Which, if you don't know what it stands for, you don't need to.
Beach004


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:11 pm 
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beach004, Email DavidSnoap about the pin. I'm sure he can help you through it.

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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 7:21 am 
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Here I go again: Help!

I went ahead, took out the firing pin, put the stud in the locking block, and put it back in place. Now I am trying to reinstall the firing pin. I can get it in place all right, holding it there by a drift through the hole where the half-inch pin goes that holds the firing pin in place. Now my question: I removed that half-inch pin by drifting it out, downward. Do I put it back in from below, where it came out? And: the pin is not quite symmetrical: One end has some "fluting" on it. Does that end go in the hole first, or does it stay outside, and get hammered on? I hope this is clear; I can send pictures.

I am also a little concerned, because when I press on the back of the firing pin, with the drift holding it in place, it doesn't seem to stick out the bolt face, hardly at all; maybe it will when I have the missing pin installed, but I wondered...

I suspect this bolt is very similar to those in Model 11-87's and 1100's, so any of you who work on those can tell me how to proceed. Which I would appreciate!
Beach004


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2004 10:17 pm 
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beach004 ,

Sounds like you are describing a straight "knurl" on the end of your pin . Knurling is usually done to increase the diameter of the item --- but usually locational pins are hardened and thereby might not knurl to easily . You may have a replacement pin maybe not .

I haven't disassemble the bolt on my M-58 , but , I will to see if it matches your description. Regardless , if you want to use that pin , the knurled end should "trail" the smooth end .

421


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 Post subject: Re: Remington Model 58 Disassembly
PostPosted: Sat Jul 17, 2004 2:39 pm 
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beach004,

The retaining pin on my M-58 has three equi-spaced "upsets"
"stakes" whatever -- not enough in number to have been placed by my idea of a knurling tool .

Driving the pin from the top of the bolt produced the upset-end of the pin first . That end of the pin was a good 1/8" past the bottom face of the bolt and the top of the pin was about twice
that .

The firing pin is driven (into a primer) by the momentum it gets from the hammer ; i.e., when aft end of the firing pin is flush with the aft face of the bolt , the firing pin does not protrube past the front face of the bolt . ( Someone else may have asked that ?)

421


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