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 Post subject: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:29 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:46 pm
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I recently picked up a Winchester SX2 Practical Mark I for a great price. It came equipped with a pop-up rifle sight and fiber optic front sight. With the rifle sight flipped down, you can look down a channel that runs through the middle of the weaver rail over the receiver and use just the fiber optic front sight.

I plan on using it for HD (using OO buck and rifled slugs) and maybe 2-gun. My SX2 points quickly and very naturally for me.

The SX2 Practical Mark II came with LPA ghost ring sights.

Here's my question. Is there any advantage to replacing my rifle sights with the LPA GRS set-up for my purposes?




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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:40 am 
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The only person that can make that decision is you.
I personally have never been able to make ghost ring sights work all that great, and tend to greatly prefer rifle sights.
Other people love ghost rings.
If you prefer the ghost rings, then go for it.


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 3:02 am 
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I'd say ghost sights; for better target actualisation. But as Temp pointed out it's up to your preference.

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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 10:41 am 
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I love the rifle sights on my Benelli SNT. I tried them and the GRS before I purchased so I had a choice.

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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 10:00 pm
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For HD, I like a large bead and a proper fitting stock with good cheek weld. Nothing's faster.


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 09, 2008 3:40 pm
Posts: 85
I wish I could find one style I liked well enough to use for everything and say it was the best, but I can't! I like apertures and ghost rings for daylight work on almost any long gun (my eyes are too shot to use open irons for precision work), but I really don't mesh well with them when the light drops down past a certain level. On a shotgun, the XS Big Bead has proven to be good enough if I am on my game, but I found myself instinctively wanting a rear sight, so I have come back to a standard rifle-sighted "police" barrel on my 870.

(Looks-wise, a parkerized barrel on a Marine Magnum took a while for me to get used to.)

I don't think the rifle sights are the "be-all and end-all" of the choices out there, but I have a bit more confidence in that setup than the others at this time. You might try cobbling up a "temporary facsimile" ghost ring from plastic or cardstock and taping it on to see if it is right for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:32 pm
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Location: Tampa Fl.
Most of the SLP shooters around here leave the rifle sight down and use the channel in the pic rail for most of their shots. When a slug comes up they will flip the sight up and use it for more precise shots. Most of the shooting in 3 gun with the shotgun is with birdshot and at some matches you may not have slug shots at all. Just depends on who sets up the stage. You can't just put the LPA on. The front sight will be to low so you will have to change to the high front sight from LPA. Now you have the added expense of having the old sight taken off and the new one put on. Don't forget the cost of the new rear LPA sight also. Have you shot the gun at any matches yet? FN makes the other version with the shorter barrel and GRS but I think it is only 6+1 but same action (SX2) These are shotguns not benchrest rifles,at most matches a hit anywhere on the target is OK. Usually 1 hit is needed to neutralize with a slug rd. I don't think you are at any disadvantage using the rifle style sights at a match. Only you can decide what is best for you and the best way to find out is to take the gun to every 2 gun/3 gun match around and shoot her alot.


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:12 am 
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Haven't shot it yet in any 2 or 3 gun matches yet LWM. I have however taken her out to the skeet range and had a blast. Fantastic shotty!

I did see the LPA sights and you're right, they definitely aren't cheap. Do you know how much the higher profile of these sights will affect the current cheek weld I'm getting with the rifle sights?

Thanks everyone for weighing in on this issue and for giving me fantastic advice. I appreciate it!

All the best.


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:38 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:16 pm
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Location: CA
I'm going through this decision right now with a Benelli Tactical! Also pistol vs standard grip! :?


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:35 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:16 pm
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Does anyone out there actually PREFER rifle sights? If so, why?

I'm leaning toward getting this type.


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:09 am 
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hoser wrote:
Does anyone out there actually PREFER rifle sights? If so, why?

I'm leaning toward getting this type.


I prefer a bead. A big bead.

After that, good ghost rings and rifle sights (both with large, round front sights the size of my preferred bead) are a horse a piece.

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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:13 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 12:16 pm
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Location: CA
How are the early HK Benelli M1 rifle sights?


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:05 pm 
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TempestV wrote:
The only person that can make that decision is you.
I personally have never been able to make ghost ring sights work all that great, and tend to greatly prefer rifle sights.
Other people love ghost rings.
If you prefer the ghost rings, then go for it.


I agree that it has to be decided by you but I have always had good luck with ghost rings. Take it out and shoot it then choose what works best for you.


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:30 pm
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I think the general consensus is usually that a bead is faster and works great for close range. For further out, a rifle sight/or ghost ring may be prefered. I guess it all depends what you plan on using this shotgun for. Some people are good with beads even at distance, so, like others have said, I think it's all up to your preference.


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:49 am 
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I'd think rifle sights are a good compromise between the bead and ghost, no? Sometimes it seems like the ghosts are a little big and sometimes slower, especially since I have a cross-eye dominance issue!


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 8:09 am 
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hoser wrote:
I'd think rifle sights are a good compromise between the bead and ghost, no? Sometimes it seems like the ghosts are a little big and sometimes slower, especially since I have a cross-eye dominance issue!


<= Also cross dominant.

Hoser, don't confuse GR with "peep"-type sights. GRS are supposed to be mounted much closer to the eye and have a very large aperture. Sadly most get mounted well forward of where they should be.

I've found that large aps are useable for me being right handed and left-eye dominant. I was a huge fan of Red Dots (still am to an extent) until I started shooting an MP5 - the super large ap and "ring within a ring" thing just plain works for both up close and fast, as well as reasonable precision for medium-range targets (say to 100 yards). Replacing the stock ap on an AR15 with an XS same-plane and putting a BigDot up front does something similar.

As far as rifle sights, some are quicker than others, but the ones that are quick up close are slower at distance. Everything is a tradeoff.

Regarding the older HK/Benelli rifle sights, the only ones I've played with were on an M1S90 Entry. They were tiny, but I suppose would work for distant precision.

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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:46 am 
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FMD wrote:
hoser wrote:
I'd think rifle sights are a good compromise between the bead and ghost, no? Sometimes it seems like the ghosts are a little big and sometimes slower, especially since I have a cross-eye dominance issue!


<= Also cross dominant.

Hoser, don't confuse GR with "peep"-type sights. GRS are supposed to be mounted much closer to the eye and have a very large aperture. Sadly most get mounted well forward of where they should be.

I've found that large aps are useable for me being right handed and left-eye dominant. I was a huge fan of Red Dots (still am to an extent) until I started shooting an MP5 - the super large ap and "ring within a ring" thing just plain works for both up close and fast, as well as reasonable precision for medium-range targets (say to 100 yards). Replacing the stock ap on an AR15 with an XS same-plane and putting a BigDot up front does something similar.

As far as rifle sights, some are quicker than others, but the ones that are quick up close are slower at distance. Everything is a tradeoff.

Regarding the older HK/Benelli rifle sights, the only ones I've played with were on an M1S90 Entry. They were tiny, but I suppose would work for distant precision.


Thanks! Since for me, it's more of a HD and doubt too much distance work would be needed...except when shooting slugs out at targets. Do you feel rifles are fairly quick a close range too? Since I kind of squint to use ghosts, I find the large wings can sometimes block more view. I'd think rifle sights would be more open view, even when squinting.

If I ever mounted a red dot on a Benelli M1S90, would rifle sights be out of the way more than ghost rings?


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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:12 am 
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*Warning: Thread drift in progress. Sorry OP*

hoser wrote:
Thanks! Since for me, it's more of a HD and doubt too much distance work would be needed...except when shooting slugs out at targets. Do you feel rifles are fairly quick a close range too? Since I kind of squint to use ghosts, I find the large wings can sometimes block more view. I'd think rifle sights would be more open view, even when squinting.


Long-time folks here at the basement know my bias, so I guess you'll get it now too:

I like XS BigDots for damn near everything self-defense related. My thoughts on shotguns tend towards beads in that one can learn to shoot a bead and make slug shots on a head-size target at 50-75 yards and COM shots on a torso-sized target from 75-100. I've found nothing faster for Zero to I-should-have-picked-up-a-rifle distances than the XS BigDot or its cousins (Marbles/Trijicon and Meprolight beads).

XS makes a set of BigDot rifle sights that are a direct replacement for Remington RS. They mimic the handgun and AK sight sets in that there is a shallow "V" with a vertical stripe that the eye wants to settle the BD front sight on. It's pretty damn quick up close, and reasonably accurate at distance. Distance work will probably take some getting used to though, as the sight picture is different than traditional post-and-notch RS.

Some of the XS GRS do have a large set of "ears" that protect the rear aperture, but that can be used to your advantage (they will block out the left eye's view f the rear ap). You should be shooting with both eyes wide open no matter what, as that is exactly what you will be doing under stress.

Quote:
If I ever mounted a red dot on a Benelli M1S90, would rifle sights be out of the way more than ghost rings?


Absolutely. The RS are mounted low on the barrel, and require just about the same cheekweld one might expect with a bead. Any scope rail mounted to the receiver would likely block them out.

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Either you are a weapon and your gun is a tool, or your gun is a weapon and you are the tool. - Tactical Response
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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:10 pm 
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hoser wrote:
I'd think rifle sights are a good compromise between the bead and ghost, no? Sometimes it seems like the ghosts are a little big and sometimes slower, especially since I have a cross-eye dominance issue!

FMD gave you some good info.
I would put the "continuum" of sights as EO---bead---GRS---rifle in terms of speed fast to slow. For some, the difference between the bead and GRS will be blurred or even reversed. For others, the rifle sights might be more comfortable. A lot depends on eye issues as you've seen and the sights that the shooter has been the most comfortable with and/or used more. Some shooters will have issues with EO sights and shoot slower with them, or at least think they do.
In terms of quickness, the M4 has a GRS and is used to good effect daily on two way ranges around the globe. I prefer the GRS to other irons (even a bead) and the fine detail of a rifle sight is my least favorite.

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 Post subject: Re: Rifle sights vs. ghost ring sights
PostPosted: Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Hey All -

I'm a new member here - I am very interested in this topic considering that I am buying my first HD SG soon as well. I have chosen the 870P and am very confused about the factory options you can select (according to remingtonle.com). I want the 18.5" barrel with the 6+1 capacity configuration. I want a synthetic stock without the I-feed holes. So you can either get this with bead or with rifle sights. I am very up in the air as I have never tried either and ultimately will have to buy one just from advice on these forums. I'm buying it as an HD, SHTF and all-around long gun. A very experienced member of another forum recommended the bead as the most versatile of all sight options. Since ghost rings (with 18.5" barrel, 6+1 capacity, and synthetic stock) are not an option from Remington I have to choose between rifle sights and bead.

Considering this will be my only gun - and I'll be going to the range, etc -- I want what is truly most versatile. I wish they offered ghost rings, but for whatever reason the only two types are bead and rifle. Anyone have any opinions?

ps. I don't mean this to be a thread hi-jacking - hopefully its on topic enough to not irritate anyone.




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