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 Post subject: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:35 pm 
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im looking for a new semi auto shotgun for ducks, geese, doves, pheasents and some grouse. benelli and remington have caught my eye, a 3 1/2 in. chamber in 12ga. would be nice but isnt important. a rugged, well built shotgun that will shoot thousands of rounds without a hicup on the sporting clays cource is the main priority. im still open to suggestions for an idea to a better built shotgun. i havent used semi auto's very much, but have a remington 1400 20ga. and have put around one thousand rounds through it over several years.
thanks :)


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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:54 pm 
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Check out the new Browning Maxus or the Winchester SX3.
Browning no longer makes the Golds, but, uses some of the Gold's features in the
Winchester SX3.The Maxus raises the bar for Browning above the Golds.
Also, check out the Beretta 3901 series.
Inspect and shoulder them,I think you'll be impressed. {hs# :B3


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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 6:58 pm 
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look into the stoeger m2000 its the cheaper same quality couzin as the benelli, ans if you want a pump look at the stoeger p350 it is a 3 1/2 chamber, stoeger is reasonably priced to cheaper than the benelli and remington, check my post on here im going to get my m2000 within the next week or so, comes with all choke tubes seems like a great deal, the thread i posted just a lil while ago about the stoeger help, hope it helps your decesion like it did mine

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:41 pm 
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Hmmm How is the Browning Maxus better than the Gold? My guess is that it is about like the Beretta 302 and the 303, or the Beretta 390 and 391 Urika. Yes there are small changes and even refinements, but we should not be fooled by marketing.

Back to the OP's question. Go to a large registered sporting clays shoot and see which autoloader is there in big numbers. There is a reason for the popularity of the 390 and 391.

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:49 pm 
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How I rate the latest batch of auto-loaders, from a guy that works on the other side of the gunshop counter.

1 Beretta A400
2 Browning Maxus
3 Beretta 391
4 Benelli SBE/M2
5 Win SX3
6 Benelli Vinci

I have shot them all. I only own a 391 Urika. If I could trade it in my AL391 for an A400, I would. Of all these guns, I disliked shooting the Vinci.

(That Stoeger 2000 is a disposable gun. I have seen way too many disappointed people bring them back. Alot of those guns get returned to the factory for repairs, "ALOT".)


Do yourself a favor,

"Buy Once, Cry Once"

SPAD


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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:18 pm 
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astomb wrote:
Hmmm How is the Browning Maxus better than the Gold?


Better shell-handling, a cleaner action, lighter weight, and 3-1/2 in. shell capability along with a better factory recoil pad. It is also in production.

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:23 pm 
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SPAD wrote:
How I rate the latest batch of auto-loaders, from a guy that works on the other side of the gunshop counter.

1 Beretta A400
2 Browning Maxus
3 Beretta 391
4 Benelli SBE/M2
5 Win SX3
6 Benelli Vinci



That's a good list; add in that the Browning Silver is the basic gun as the SX3 from the same plant, the Beretta 3901 is essentially the 390 and a lower price point gun, and give Beretta Xtrema2 a nod for its appeal in the goose pit and those are the most popular choices on the market today.

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:26 pm 
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Randy you guys ever get that 105CTI figured out for big green? :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2010 10:32 pm 
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If it was at the SHOT show, I missed it. It appears to have been discontinued.

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:27 am 
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I own at least one of every action type of modern autoloader, and if the do gooders cornered me and just forced me to choose only a brand new one, it would have to be the Beretta 391. It has a three inch chamber, and my sons shoot those big shells without a hitch. They are something of a pain to clean. They have a plastic trigger group and an aluminum receiver, but it's hard to not get that in new guns. Their long slide gas action does a great job damping recoil, if you get a new one with the proper shell lifter (or fix an older shell lifter) they are about as reliable as a gas gun gets. They go amazing runs of ammo between cleaning, which is very good as it's not a five minute chore, like a Super X.

In fact, if I hadn't discovered SX1's I would just be tickled to death with 391's. A real Super X just about ruins you for anything less.;)


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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 10:34 am 
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Randy.....Didn't you write in an article that the SX1 was one of the biggest autoloader disasters ever...What were the reasons?


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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:38 am 
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So, the Stoeger 2000 is a disposable gun, is it? Most of my friends who use them would disagree with you. They are the only inertia actions guns that will cycle 7/8 and 1 oz loads. One of my buddies has been using one for eight years, back before CNC tooling. It has been very reliable. He loves it. Another friend has one of the new models and loves it. The machining on the new model is as good as you will find on a semi.

I am going to buy a new semi shortly. The Walmart Beretta is one gun that I am looking at. The 2000 is another and it is $100 less expensive. I don't know anyone who owns a Walmart Beretta. So, right now it is a toss-up. I disagree that the 2000 is a disposable gun due to my freind's experiences.

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 11:50 am 
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It appears that Randy wasn't down on the gun, but the economics of the company that lost money on every one built. Here's a link to one article by Randy that I googled, as you made me curious! :) http://www.chuckhawks.com/searching_used_shotgun.htm
See the last "used gun" he recommended..........

I bought one in Like new condition on gb for $600----just a field grade with mod. fixed choke. It wasn't a very good deal at the time, but the super-x 1's seem to be going for a lot more lately, so I'm not totally displeased.
I HATED the gun until I learned from some of the more knowledgeable guys here how to replace the bolt buffer and now it's my favorite gun for sporting clays. As said, it is EASY to clean. Unless I put winchester universals in, it doesn't hang up, shoots soft, cycles fast, feels GREAT, just a really nice gun.


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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:22 pm 
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Take a look at Beretta's new A400 Xplor Unico: https://www.berettausa.com/e2wshoppingc ... 3100001645

It has truly raised the bar.

Tom

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 12:41 pm 
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Randy may have something else to add, but the SX1 was an complete financial disaster for Winchester.

They lost money on every one they sold, maybe as much as $300 each, and the sold close to 90,000 before they gave up. The gun was too thought too heavy for most hunters, they had no smaller bores, there were no choke tubes or three inch chambers, there were at least three trigger types, two different wood finishes, two rib types, and each change made was an improvement over the last. The first guns out the door were excellent, and they improved on each change.

An SX1 isn't perfect. They all need a new $20 recoil buffer from Wrights, and repacing the recoil spring and it's follower, hammer spring, O ring, and making sure they have a last model stainless mag tube is highly recommended.
But what you get is an all steel, well made, excellently balanced, durable, reliable, soft kicking gun that has the disticntion of being the easiest to strip and clean of any autloader. A perfect field model is worth $400-$500, and trap and skeet models in the higher hundreds of dollars. I consider them the finest gas operated target gun ever made, and the newer SX2's and SX3's pale copies of the original.;)


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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 4:15 pm 
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The Super-X Model 1 wasn't financially successful, that's all. But that is true for a lot of excellent guns. The Model 12 met the same fate eventually, not being able to compete on a price basis versus the tin-can, stamped guns that more shooters decided to buy instead.

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:39 pm 
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There is no one best auto loading model for every use and everyone. If there was such a thing, everyone would be using the same model. The fact is there are more than likely several models that could work as well for your intended uses.

For all around use you'll more than likely want something that is light enough for all day upland hunts. Having the ability to cycle both light and heavy loads makes the gun more verastile.

For all around use a 3" model is usually a better choice than most 3 1/2" models. There are some very good 3 1/2" models that are as light as or lighter in weight and cycle as light as or lighter loads than some 3" models. They were the mentioned in the Beretta A400, Browning Maxus, and Winchester SX3. The Beretta Xtrema 2 is also good with lighter loads like the others It weighs more than the other 3 1/2" models but, is still as light as many 3" models.

Good 3" models for all around use would be the Benelli Vinci,Cordoba,M2, Beretta AL391/Urika 2,3901, 390 Wal Mart, Browning Silver, Winchester SX3. The Browning Gold and Winchester sx2 can be found on dealers racks or as NIB's Harder to find would be the Franchi 712 or Weatherby SAS.

The easiest auto loader to strip all the way down to clean is the Benelli Vinci followed closely by the Franchi I-12 and stoeger 2000. None of which are the best models for light target loads. The Franchi gas design of the 612,712,912, Weatherby SAS and the basis of the Beretta Xtrema and then changed some more to the A400 would not be all to far behind.

The best thing you can do is figure out how much you want to spend. Then decide what features are important to you. Those would be things like magazine cutoff's, stock shims, speed load/unload, etc. Then get out and fondle as may as you can. Hold them with different barrel lenghts and do as many side by side comparissons as possible.

RandyWakeman wrote:
Better shell-handling, a cleaner action, lighter weight, and 3-1/2 in. shell capability along with a better factory recoil pad. It is also in production.


The speed unloading "Shell Handling" is better. Cleaner action? Not from what I have seen. Sounds like a Browning add. They do go long periods between cleanings. Lighter than what? The Gold Fusion and SL models have a similar weight to the Maxus. Less weight makes it lighter and not better for everyone. It's easy and can be inexpensive to add weight to a lighter gun. I perfer lighter models but, that's me. The Golds came in 3 1/2" models and 3" models the same as the Maxus. So, how is that better than one another? The factory pad for the Maxus might be a little better than the Gold. Neither is as good as a few of the aftermarket pads which could be added for a small cost. The Gold is no longer and has been replaced by the Maxus. The Gold is a proven design and the Maxus is a new model. Since the Maxus is not much of a depoarture from the Gold, it should prove to be one as well.

The Maxus can't accept a magazine extension to hold more rounds like the Gold can. The Gold has a larger triangle shaped safety button to the smaller round one of the Maxus. Makes working the safety on the Gold Better for gloved hands. Browning dropped the ball on both and the Gold is better in those regards.


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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 1:11 am 
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MAXUS

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:04 am 
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+1 to the Beretta 390 and 391. They fit me the best. I would shoulder and shoot all of the ones you are considering.

UMH

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 Post subject: Re: best auto loading shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 3:47 am 
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steve1206 wrote:
Randy.....Didn't you write in an article that the SX1 was one of the biggest autoloader disasters ever...What were the reasons?


This is what I wrote when talking about searching for used shotguns:

WINCHESTER SUPER-X MODEL ONE AUTOLOADER

This is a sleeper pick of sorts. They were expensive to make and Olin Winchester supposedly lost money on every one they sold. They are in 12 gauge only and 2-3/4 inch chamber only and considered on the heavy side for carrying around in the field. The only design curse is an overly heavy bolt that can eat original recoil buffers. Parts are no problem; Nu-Line has enough SX parts to last for the foreseeable future. If they were made today, they’d have to sell for close to $2000. They have never had huge collector interest (in the sense of Belgium A-5’s) and can still be found new in the box or lightly used for a comparative song. Many feel the SX-1 is the best-built gas autoloader ever and they are probably right.


Not exactly harsh criticism. The shame of it is that the original SX didn't last long enough to develop into further development, screw-chokes, 3 in. chambers, 16 ga., 20 ga., and what you might expect from the full treatment of the platform.

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