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 Post subject: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:28 pm
Posts: 90
I was recently given a 20ga SxS made by Gorosabel by my Father. It's got a nickel reciever, 28" barrels, single selective trigger, ejectors and a pistol grip stock. There is no butt plate, just checkering on the butt of the stock. The gun is in like new condition. A beautiful little gun. I just cannot find any information about it. I know it was made by Pedro Gorosabel (PG stamped on the flats), but there is no model number any place on the gun that I can find.
Are any of you familiar with this gun maker? I'd like to find out more about it and a value if possible.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Don


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:11 pm 
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Gorosabel is a respected maker. Need to post pics to estimate value.

Look at the first posts of this forum and you will see info as to date of proof which is coded on the barrel flats.

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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2478
Post some photos, or at least a better description. Is it a boxlock or sidelock? What does the engraving pattern look like (many
Spanish guns have model specific engraving patterns)? As with other Basque gunmakers, Gorosabel appears to have produced price point guns, as well as, high end models. The British firm, Gunmark (now GMK, Ltd.) offered some Gorosabel SLE models during the 1980's (GMK, LTd. is partly owned by Beretta). Gorosabels appear to be well made guns.

Gunmark, like other major importers may have specified specific features for guns destined for the UK market. Those features may differ from the ones on standard production models (ex: single selective trigger). It is my understanding that Gorosabel ceased production of guns during the 1990's to concentrate on producing parts for many of the Eibar gunmakers. I don't know if the firm is still in business. Perhaps some of the regulars on this forum can provide additional information.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 2:34 pm
Posts: 3873
I had a Gorosabel .410 that had features exactly as you described and in very nice condition. I decided I wanted to get an American-built 20 gauge SXS instead. I found one at each of two well-known purveyors of double guns. When I asked about trading the Gorosabel to them, both were quick and firm in stating they had no use for it.

Fortunately, I ran on to a guy who was looking for a small bore shotgun to use as the basis of a double rifle he was going to build. I had $700 in it. I don't know if that was too much or not but I managed to recoup my investment.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:09 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
I have 2 Gorosabels - a 12 and a 20 ga. Both boxlock NE, DT. Judging by the internal finish as well as the "engraving" these were lower-end models. However, both are kind of nice guns. They both shoot well but are clunky in feel when swinging them. I bought them both for $650. I restocked the 20 ga and had the trigger lightened so have a bit more money in it.

I have seen much more attractive Gorosabels and suspect, as has been mentioned, that the company made them to several price points.

The guns I have are nice-looking guns (new stock on one and I refinished the other) but they are unremarkable in use. They are definitely worthwhile in this price range.

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Frank
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"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:28 pm
Posts: 90
The gun is a box lock. The importer stamped on the gun is Ventura Imports, Seal Beach, Ca.
I don't have the gun with me at this time, so I can't post pictures of it, but I found a 12ga for sale on gunbroker that looks just like it. The seller is asking $1199, but getting no offers. I have no way of knowing if he's way overpriced, but I suspect that's the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 7:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
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I just looked at the gunbroker one - it's a much higher quality wood and finish than mine, but it is made for the American export market with beavertail forend and ST. It also has ejectors. I suspect it's a bit overpriced but maybe by only a few hundred bucks. It looks in cherry condition. But then, there's that ST...

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Frank
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"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
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Gorosabel appears to have built three different SxS models for Ventura Imports during the early 1980's. Models 51 and 53 were boxlocks and Model 66 was a SLE with hand detachable lock plates.

The description of your gun appears to fit Ventura's Anson & Deeley boxlock Model 51 which was available in 12 & 20 gauge. A pistol grip stock with a slim semi-beavertail forearm, level rib, auto-ejectors and a single selective trigger were standard, no double trigger option was offered.

20 gauge guns had 700mm (nominal 27-1/2") barrels, 3 " chambers, all normal chokes and weighed 6 lbs. 3 oz. +/-.
12 gauge guns had 700mm (nominal 27-1/2") barrels, 2-3/4' chambers, all normal chokes and weighed 6lbs. 9 oz.+/-.
A 12 gauge waterfowl version had 76mm (nominal 30" barrels), 3" chambers, all normal chokes and weighed 7 lbs. 4 oz.+/-.

The 1984 retail price was $ 696.00.

Ventura's Model 53 SxS had a scalloped frame on the A&D action with more elaborate engraving, a choice of pistol grip or straight English grip (both with semi-beavertail forearm), a choice of single selective or double triggers (the latter being deleted in 1984). Gauges and barrel lengths were the same as the Model 51. Price was $ 856.-.

A Model 53 XXV was offered with 636mm (25") barrels, a Churchill rib, splinter forearm and English stock. Available gauges were 12, 20, 28 and .410 bore. Price was $ 896.-.

The Models 66 and 66 XXV were built on a Holland & Holland pattern sidelock action. Gauges and barrel lengths were the same as the Model 53 and 53 XXV with the exception of no .410 bore. Several options including custom stock dimensions were offered.
Prices ranged from $ 1,100.- to $1,396.- depending on selected standard options plus custom options.

Ventura also offered a higher grade Model 52 Victrix boxlock in 28 and .410 bore. This model was built by Pedretti & Son in Italy. A Model 54 SxS built by Angelo Zoli was offered in 12 gauge only and came standard with 5 interchangable choke tubes
(Sk, IC, M, IM & F), single selective trigger and Purdey style engraving on a French greyed frame.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 9:28 pm
Posts: 90
Thanks for all the info. May I ask, where you found all this?
I did searches all over the internet for Gorosabel and also for Ventura imports, but pretty much came up empty. Very informative. Thanks.
Any way to know what a model 51 in 20ga might be worth today in like new condition?
Thanks,
Don


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:15 pm 
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I'm of the opinion (for whatever that might be worth) that Pedro Gorsable guns are one of the better values in Spanish shotguns; especially slide lock guns. I bought two PG SLNE guns in early 2008 (a 12 gauge and a 20 gauge). Both guns were proofed in 1968 and configured for the American market (pistol grip stocks and beaver tail fore ends). I liked them so much I gave both to a very dear friend who was short on shotguns.

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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:53 pm 
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I concur. Gorosabel guns are a typical example of a small Spanish maker of former years that produced a gun with many of the qualities you find in the top end makers today.

I would recommend them to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2478
gunman100,

The information that I posted was taken from my 1984 Ventura catalogue and an equally old Gunmark catalogue. Gunmark is a
British firm (now partly owned by Beretta) which had imported a range of Basque guns including selected models from Arrieta Garbi, Gorosabel, Lanber and Zabala. With the exception of replica muzzleloaders which continued in production until the mid- 1990's, Gorosabel ceased production of other firearms during the late 1980's and concentrated on producing an extensive variety of leaf springs, sears, bridles, hammers, cocking levers, etc. for the the gunmakers of Eibar.

Doppelflinten


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:54 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
Gorosabel 20 ga BLNE. I bought this with a derelict stock and re-stocked it to my dimensions. Altho I do not like PG, I decided to retain the original configuration so that I wouldn't have to alter the guard tang. The walnut is plain and straight-grain - it's from a slab I've had in my shop for almost 20 years so it's well-seasoned! Innumerable oil rub-ins. There are a few minor scuffs on outside of barrels but the bores are brilliant.

Image
Image

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Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 10:22 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2478
Pumpster,

Nice re-stock. Did you do the checkering too?

Doppelflinten





Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:38 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
No - I bought a set of checkering tools and, being reasonably good with tools, figured it would take a few hours to checker the stock.

Good thing I tried it out on the old one first - I am completely unable to checker. All I get is fuzz. Most vexatious. After many hours trying to checker on different walnut pieces I gave up and had it done.

I also had the triggers lightened up by New England Custom. The barrels must have been opened up by an earlier owner, they are about IC/IC.

_________________
Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:51 pm 
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Is that american black walnut? Whatever walnut, it's a very nice restock job.

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“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sat Feb 20, 2010 12:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
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American walnut - I bought a huge slab in NH many years ago.

_________________
Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:41 am 
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You don't see it often these days. I like the looks of American walnut on a SG and it makes a good solid stock, but it's not often well figured like English/French/Turk ....

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“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”
― Benjamin Franklin


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 Post subject: Re: Gorosabel SxS 20ga
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 1:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:18 am
Posts: 7792
Here's one side of the American walnut stock I put on my 20 ga.:

Image

Nothing fancy. I made a grip-cap out of some lignum vitae. We'll see how it lasts.

_________________
Frank
___________________
"Pumpster" is because of pumpkins, not pump guns.
It's SxS, DT splinter/English for me!
Shotguns speak in many voices and fortunate are those of us who hear more than one.
May God bless our Union.


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 Profile  
 
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