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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Slightly off topic, and this is a great topic with some fairly humorous comments, but my wife and I met Kim at the Shot show last month. What a very cool person, nice as could be and she even put her 4 Olympic medals around my wifes neck. I wish I would have asked her the question about eye dominance.
Carry on.



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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:36 am 
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Location: Salt Lake. Unless I'm off shooting....
John Herkowitz, who also owns a sporting arms business, has been on many All American teams and broken many 4bys and 5bys, uses an occluder. He is not cross dominant but has centered vision.

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:17 pm 
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Dunno about you lot over the pond but here I know Craig Lakey very well-he has won several world titles & is cross dominant- he is a right hander but shoots left as is right eyed dominant. He has now gone over to International skeet & is one of our best Olympic skeet shooters.

My husband was our best skeet shooter for 5 years & is now in the top 2-he has dual dominance-is left handed but shoots right handed but with no tape -just squints
The 2 of them together have won a few 2 man titles in the last couple of years at the Worlds beating all the 2 eyed non crossed shooters.

That's our Uk ten penn'orth :)

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:34 pm 
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All right then 3 pages later - I guess the short answer is YES. :s

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:52 am 
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There are plenty of good All-American class skeet shooters using ocular patches or even one-eyed. While I have not been competing seriously the last couple of years in many years past I have had reasonable success with a small patch. A few All-American teams, a few major gun championships, a few Open All-State Teams etc. If I can be successful with one anyone can. :mrgreen: A properly placed patch does not limit your peripheral vision. For me while being right eye dominate my left eye sometimes will take over with targets coming from my left. For me it just prevents that sometimes. In our game of perfection that sometimes can be a real killer.

I don't post much but Rem II reminds me of our long lost friend Scott Winders. A know-it-all and name dropper. Winders is a pretty nice guy in person that I liked to tease and give a hard time to. He just tended to be a blow hard on line. I will say one thing is that it seems the only sport less popular than American Skeet is International Skeet. Probably 99% of American Skeet Shooters don't give a rats hiney how a Italian or Chinese international skeet shooter is chosen or trains. JMHO.

Alan


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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:40 am 
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Kate, I don't think Craig will develop to the standards of Hancock (USA) or Achilleos (Greece), but I think, possibly, your husband could make a run at shooting to those standards shooting in his homeland for the Olympics.

However, it is very difficult to switch from a slow clay champion to a fast clay champion, because the shooters have difficulty assuming absolute certitude in mind or absolute certitude in technique, at the faster speeds.

When they changed the game, in 1996, which included shooting doubles from station four I don't think any of the champions prior to that time were able to continue their success. The Olympic Committee separated the men from the women in 1996 and Falco (Italy) was a student of Blasi (Italian Coach..Father of the Modern Style), and they took the Gold in 1996. Another student of Blasi, Achilleos, took the World title shortly thereafter.

My point here is that in men's international skeet, even though they were used to the speeds of the clay, champions prior to 1996 could not continue their success. However, some of the problems of conversion for the pre 1996 shooters are similar to the problems of the slow clay shooters to the fast clay shooters.

Kate, as a sidebar, in this regard, the Brits are a little late in supporting the skeet shooters, but trust me, "ask and you shall receive."...as sponsors of the games. You are starting to see some conversion of the top slow clay shooters, but the real emphasis should be on the WOMEN, because the women have no problems in ending the idiotic style they have used to shoot the slow clays (dumbed down by the men). International skeet is their game!! I mean it is frightening, when you show a top female slow clay shooter how to shoot international skeet...they are UNBELIEVABLY good. UNBELIEVABLY good.

I know the Brits are anxious to win some medals in the games on their home turf, and I have watched some of the conversions...second hand...and here are some of the problems I see in England and Canada.

The first problem I see is that the slow clay shooter doesn't abandon the slow clay gun, and they shoot a gun that is too heavy, with too long a barrel. Most of the time a coach will come in and remedy this situation, but I see this in both Canada and the UK.

The gun must be 7.5 pounds with a 70-72 cm barrel.

I have business here...I'll finish this up in a minute.


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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:10 am 
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With the theme of the slow clay shooters converting to the fast clays of international skeet they tend to practice too long with the wrong gun, which is too heavy and too long.

A 30 inch barrel is too long for international skeet. However, when the slow clay shooter starts to shoot fast clays, they don't recognize the barrel is too long, because they do not adapt the style of the international shooter. In other words, they continue to shoot WHERE THEY ARE LOOKING, just as they did with the slower clays...this is how they dumb-down women.

The international skeet shooter SEES the muzzle at all times, and is, acutally, aiming the gun as it is being raised to the shoulder so that when the butt stock hits the shoulder the gun is fully aimed and immediately fired...see lead/pull trigger.

The 30 inch barrel is too long and sits too high in the air (muzzle), at address, for this process to occur, properly.

When you shoot to where you are looking (slow clay shooter) you become clay dependent. An international skeet shooter is not clay dependent; they are one with the gun; not one with the clay. An international shooter is always moving the gun directly to lead, and, if you can't figure that out (slow clay shooter) you get that inconsistent 4/10ths figure, which most slow clay shooters suffer...they can't EVERY TIME, get the shot off in a pure 4/10ths of a second. There is not a riding of the clay, as part of technique, with a fast clay shooter (int.skeet).

At first, for a slow clay shooter, it is a, "leap of faith", to take that gun directly to lead, and break away from the clay dependence. You will, actually, feel this as a leap of faith, when you make the change.

Kate, your husband is switched, but I would guess he is, relatively, ambidexterous. In this process of switching side dominance he has, dramatically, strengthened the left side of his brain and it is the left side of his brain (he leftie) that will tell him to shoot "right there". So it would be much more natural for him to make "the leap". However, I know it would be difficult for him to change from shooting to where he is looking....I think seeing the muzzle would be difficult to absorb as a shooting technique....for your husband.

Katie, you are the one who should be training for the Olympics. Get the gun on the dominant side so you don't continue to hurt yourself, and get some physcial therapy for six months to strengthen your injured parts. Practice on the drywall for six months and come out blazing. I think you could take a medal.

What a kick it would be for a husband-wife team to qualify for the national team in your homeland. You show the Olympic committee that idea (husband and wife qualifying)and you WILL get funding for it, expecially, since you have won pairs in slow clays.

One last thing. International champions are quite strong....especially, the women.


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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:58 am 
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Location: Salt Lake. Unless I'm off shooting....
:roll:

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:11 am 
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ahhh, Mike....the rest of us were letting this last "contribution" of his sink to the bottom of the pond.

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:25 am 
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Remmy had bidness? Guess someone walked through the doors of his "Sheister's R' Us" Consulting Bidness!


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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 9:03 am 
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Regarding Kurt Grates - Is he cross-dominate?

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:45 am 
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Remmy's statement "The International Skeet shooter SEES his muzzle at all times" is a bit hard for me to swallow. The "seeing of the muzzle" in both American and International Skeet is the same. We know where it is, but we don't stare at it, and it is not in focus. There is no difference in the two games in that respect. Neither can I agree with his assessment of the ability of the pre 1996 International shooters. The change to doubles at station four had way less to do with the success of newer shooters than did the age of the older shooters. Shooters progress from medal contenders to recreational shooters in a very defined progression, about 98% related to age and physical condition. Assistance is generally given to shooters based on not only ability, but willingness to travel and train. Younger shooters generally fit into the willing category better than older shooters. I don't know if Remmy has shot the game, but the doubles at four can be taught to an experienced International shooter. In 1996, not all active shooters knew the procedures and relied on ability for a short time. When taught the proper procedures, those with ability did pretty well at it, regardless of age. Contrary to Remmy's statement, you don't have to be 22 years old to shoot I-Skeet doubles at station four.


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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:36 pm 
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Low Gun, once again, your logic is flawed, and you are attributing words to me that are not there.

Of the 1992 top 15 shooters (you could, probably, go down to top 25 shooters), if you want to shoot that low in the barrel (I could see you doing that) I don't believe there is one name on the 1992 list that is on the 1996 list.

As far as your perception of shooting technique between the slow clays and the fast clays of international skeet, your opinion is so flawed as to not be worthy of comment. Further, I have described the differences at length in previous posts.


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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2012 10:38 pm 
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Old thread but I thought someone could add this to their "research"

Note Tape all over left lens in video. -Try Again.

http://youtu.be/kineJxLDeqE


Last edited by CubaLibre on Wed May 16, 2012 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:17 am 
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Please don't summon Remington by name... He might actually come back :lol: :roll:

I've been pretty successful in getting him to vacate SGW for extended periods of time, don't jinx it :lol: :lol: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 11:58 am 
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Is there a difference between an "occluder" and a "patch", or are they the same thing?

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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Same thing.

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 Post subject: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 12:33 pm 
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Ian-

You are right, I shouldn't feed the fire. Thanks for handling that for the rest of us. Oh, and I edited my post.....

I was quite surprised to see all that tape on Kim's glasses. -No vision to the left 50% of her left lens.

I just thought she had a dot or something that size.


When all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail.


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 Post subject: Re: All Americans using eye patches?
PostPosted: Wed May 16, 2012 1:58 pm 
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eiderz wrote:
Maybe it's just a shadow but it sure looks like tape just to her left of her left eye, it blurrs the corner of her eye in the photo.


Zoom in on the photo, and it is clearly a piece of tape. If you get to the point the picture becomes pixelated, you can see the tape blocks out part of her eyebrow in a nice rectangular fashion.




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