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 Post subject: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Location: Dothan,Al
I have got the itch for a 410sxs to hunt woodcock/quail with but also to help train my dog...I know,I know why a 410?? Because I want one :lol: :roll: :mrgreen: and its a good excuse to buy one...Any suggestions on maker and chokes??..I have seen a couple of Spanish made guns that don't list the "maker"..guns are not marked with a maker...probably a knock off...I am not looking to spend a bunch on a "fun gun"also a gun to introduce my nephew and daughter with(Hmm...Shhhh..wifey is sitting close :oops: )...Anyway..Most are sold with f/f..m/f isn't that just to tight for birds!!!!!.....I hunt quail 1-3 times a week during the season...and yes I use a 20ga for serious hunting so there!

OK boys...now that all that is out of the way...spill your guts and give me some options...Maker/chokes,etc..also what about the "noname spanish guns"...they sure are cool looking :roll: :mrgreen: :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:36 pm 
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Have you considered a 28 gauge? There is not that much difference between a 410 and a 28 gauge in terms of the volume of shot as most 410 shells are 3 inch. A couple of manufacturers just released new 28 gauges. Benelli came out with a 28 Legacy semi-auto inertia, and Ithaca a 28 classic model 37 pump. Both are nice guns.

If you must have a 410, do you want a sxs, OU, semi-auto or pump?

For a sxs I would look to a Stevens 311C or a Spanish Ugartechia, AyA, etc with double triggers.
For an OU probably some sort of Browning Citori or Cynergy.
For a semi, I think Remington's 1100 is the only current manufactured semi in 410.
For a 410 pump, I see no need for such a gun, but that's just me.

Good luck, have fun.

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:31 pm 
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As I said in my subject and opening statement I DEFINATELY want a sxs..DO NOT want semi/certainly not pump ...O/U is what I mostly hunt with now and want to get back to what I started with as a 12yr old(My first gun was a Savage 311 20ga given to me by my father)...Its retired and to heavy for my nephew and certainly my 11yr old daughter....Yes I have considered a 28ga...would love that!!! :mrgreen: 8) ...I was just trying to stay out of the $1000 range :oops: ...which a 410bore seem to give me better options price wise...BUT..Now that I have been looking more/more...I'm going to be close to that...unless I can find a deal...seems as thought the 28ga sxs start at $1000.....My only "will not have gun" is Turkish...Just thank you but no :wink: :P ....So back to one of my original questions...410 chokes for birds..quail/woodcock???
Stevens,SKB,Spanish/italian all in the running...just trying to learn the "entry models on spanish/italian"and any suggestions 8)

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:36 pm 
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Sorry, my bad for glazing over the sxs.

This may help, in an article in the Shooting Sportsman, Bruce Buck had this to say about chokes for your bird gun...

Quote:
Quail shots are generally fairly short range. Chokes and loads that work at 20 and 30 yards would be about right. Skeet for the first barrel and Improved Cylinder or perhaps a small-gauge Light Modified for the second might be good choices.


Here is the link to the article...
http://www.shootingsportsman.com/techno ... un-choices

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 7:22 pm 
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hi
i faced your same quandry 2 seasons ago only i had been shooting a .410 stevens sxs. great grouse gun and can be had for $350-450 at almost any larger gun show. but i had my heart set on a 28 guage sxs. finally found a CZ bobwhite for $550. i found a gazillion 20 ga sxs for a hundred less. at 5 3/4 lbs the CZ is a twig to carry all day. i love it. now for the bad news about 28 ga. up until last summer there was no commercially available steel shot. hence no using it on federal land. the steel shot loads available are primarily for skeet at clubs that require steel shot. it kills grouse but is too wimpy for pheasants. you will have a much bigger selection of loads with a .410. so if you are looking for a inexpensive quail gun i would look for a stevens and pay a few bucks and get the chokes bored out to what you want. they tip the scales at just a touch over 6 lbs so easy to carry for an entire day. .410 will be cheaper from the get go and feeding it will be half the cost of a 28ga. not to mention there doesn't seem to be many 28ga sxs or O/U field guns used. companies like stevens that mass produced tons of 12,16 20 and .410 sxs's never made 28ga. seems 28 ga was reserved for high buck guns and skeet guns. don't give up your quest for a sxs of some kind because there is a special feeling that comes from hunting with one.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:23 pm 
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Stoeger Uplander. I have one and love it on tree rats. Mine is choked F/F. I think they go aroung $350 - $400.

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:43 pm 
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I don't have a .410 SxS but I would like to.
I shoot a single shot .410 and a pump for small game. It's my #1 choice. The .410 is a light easy to carry gun and most of my shot are not over 30 yards.

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:30 pm 
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Location: Columbus Nebraska
I've bee looking for a .410 sxs for my son (2 years old). I was given my first gun a .410 sxs noble when I was 7. The problem I find is that guys think because it is a .410 it is work 200-300 more than blue book says. When I go to gun shows around here a .410 stevens usually has an asking price of $600+. I'm not going to pay that. The gun isn't worth it just because the guy thinks it is. I then see the same guy trying to sell the same gun at the next gun show and the next. The Ebay culture really has just killed my love of gun shows. I like to go and look to see if their is anything worth talking about or thinking about but everyone thinks they have a Honus Wagner when all they have is a George Brett.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:12 pm 
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How about a used Uggie in 410? Built on a scaled receiver and can be had for about $1000

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:11 am 
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What you're lusting after is nearly exactly this.

El Faisan .410 3'' chambers double hammers, double triggers. F/F chokes too, judging by the way they cut the heads off birds at close range. Cheap, durable and fun!

The mistake the vast majority of small bore newbs make when making the switch is keeping the mentality that wider chokes are needed for upland game. This is NOT the case with the 410!!!! You're dealing with a minute number of pellets, a fraction of the pattern density and a fraction the killing energy of a 12ga, or even a 20. You NEED every possible pellet being delivered on target or you'll cripple and lose birds. A mod or IC choke is going to result in a lot of apparent misses because you'll have two or three pellets hitting the bird and they'll just keep moving. A full choke and lots of practice at the trap range will put those pellets on the bird and will make you one happy camper at days end. A trained monkey could hit a grouse with a 12ga, but most experts have a hard time killing one with a 410!

One of my fav guns, not for sale :mrgreen:

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Last edited by PGK on Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 10:48 pm 
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mrsongs wrote:
I like to go and look to see if their is anything worth talking about or thinking about but everyone thinks they have a Honus Wagner when all they have is a George Brett.

George Brett is at least an AYA #2 round body. SJH, when I get my first small bore sxs quail gun (28 ga) it will be an Uggie choked SK1/SK2.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:20 pm 
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Suggest you consider the new L C Smith s/s in 410. Comes with choke tubes, cast off for right handed shooter, 26' barrels, Casehardened receiver with gold game birds, and all at a cost of less than 1500...Works for me...Honer :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:38 am 
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I also agree with PGK. The proper way to go about upland bird hunting with a 410 is the combination of clay target practice, becoming a really good shot and using Full choke to avoid cripples. Full and Full on a 410 double is the correct way in my opinion. And the 410 is an expert shooter's shotgun for birds or quick moving small game on the run. I'd say go with a 20 or at least a 28 gauge unless you are really a proficient shotgunner. The 410 in my mind is simply not the best shotgun for a youngster to cut their teeth on, especially for hunting.

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:20 am 
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Location: Columbus Nebraska
I'm buying the .410 for my son out of tradition. He will get a 20 as his first bird gun. I shoot the .410 for fun and challenge. I'm a decent shot with a shotgun. I disagree with having it choked f/f. My current gun is m/f and does much better with the mod barrel. Most research tends to say all guns shoot better patterns with more open chokes. Particularly in the long columned .410 the full choke results in tons of fliers. I wouldn't ever want one choked f/f. If I buy one I'll have it opened to IC/Mod.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:32 am 
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You'll wound and lose a lot of birds if you do. Believe me, I've shot a lot of 410s, my current favourite is my wingmaster, with a fixed modified. I make it work, but only because I'm cogniscent of the fact that I need to get on target and shoot faster than I would with a fixed full. "Conventional knowledge" applies to big bore shotguns. A 410 is in a completely different league, and requires completely different parameters to be a capable wingshooting gun. Wider chokes require closer ranges and faster shooting. With an IC choke, I would expect a 410 to be limited to an effective range of about 15m max. With a full choke, I have killed birds at approaching 35y, an insane distance for little 410 pellets. Number six is consistently the best tradeoff between shot size and pellet count. 7.5's work, but carry less energy, although pattern density can make up for that at close and mid range. I hear lots about #4 working well, but I can only assume that is a result of 1) close range shots, sub 15m and 2) the 'lucky pellet' effect, a single larger pellet carrying enough energy and hitting the right place to kill on its own.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:16 pm 
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You should be able to find a nice late 1960's early 70's era 28ga ugartechea in the $800 - $900 range. Search gunbroker / auction arms etc for Dickson Falcon or Parker hale SxS. It took me several months, but I found a Dickson falcon / Ugartechea 28 ga for right at $700. It is a wonderful shotgun.

War Eagle!

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:44 pm 
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This looks like a nice ugartechea 410 down in the classifieds section

viewtopic.php?f=71&t=212045

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:28 am 
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So, my Noble is the exact same action. I've never done much research but you couldn't tell the difference between it and that Uggie other than mine is a coin finish and a very slight pistol grip. Is it possible it was made by Ug?


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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:41 pm 
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+1 on looking for a Uggie.

Personally, I wanted an O/U .410 with chokes tubes for playing some field trap games with my brother and nephew. (The nephew can really handle a 42). I ended up skipping over the bargain guns and went to a Browning 525. Couldn't be happier.

Nephew's out in Colorado for college at moment, but hope he gets home this summer. His daddy and I need to show him the old men can still shoot and remind him who taught him how! Time to see if age and cunning still prevail.

BTW, I've been shooting skeet with the 525 .410 choked MOD/IC and doing just fine.

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 Post subject: Re: 410 sxs -- birdgun
PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 7:10 pm 
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Quote:
Nephew's out in Colorado for college at moment, but hope he gets home this summer. His daddy and I need to show him the old men can still shoot and remind him who taught him how! Time to see if age and cunning still prevail.

This reminds me of a story whose genesis is the same as yours. When a long-time friend of mine was a teen ager, his dad and friend of his dad got into a good natured argument about who was the better shot. They decided to settle it by who got their 10 bird limit of doves with the fewest .410 shells. The only .410 my friend and his dad had was an old break-open single shot. Anyway, Dad and friend-of-dad got their limits with 25 & 26 shells respectively. The next day my friend took that old single shot .410 and put 10 doves in the bag with 17 shots. So, don't be so sure you're going to show junior how to do it. :D


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