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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:22 am 
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Vogelsong wrote:
David W wrote:
I just recently purchased this gun, have not fired it with live rounds yet. I'm always interested about newer guns, and usually take them apart and see what makes them tick. My main passion is L.C. Smiths, but I do like other side lock guns and own a few box lock as well.

What I have noticed about this gun (Zabala) is that when dry fired with snap caps it is hard to open because of the hammers and ejectors doing their part. After gun has ejected it is still hard to close (compared to "elsies") because now the ejctors have to be re-cocked.
So from what you are telling me, your gun is not ejecting, but is it hard to close, do you feel a drag as it is closing? If you don't feel a drag then the ejctors are not being released. In the one picture of the for-end metal, are the ejector springs in the position of these? If they are then the ejector trip is stopping them from working and gun will close much easier without having to re-set the ejector springs.


Dave,

I'm gonna give you some answers I have without looking at the gun and then I'm gonna go up and mess with it some more.

First, I have always noticed gun is hard to open and close. I have noticed gun has gotten easier to close lately, maybe this has something to do with it. I never put 2n2 together here, I thought I was just getting used to handling it but maybe not. As far as the ejector spring position I need to look at it again. But as far as I'm concerned the position you show in the pic is the only position I ever see them in.

Now I'm gonna go up and confirm hard open as well as a few other things. But I thing the gun has gotten easier to open also.


Ok, this gun is still hard to open, it clicks as if something is working when you open it but all it does is extract the shells; no ejection. It is easy to close, there is no drag. I thought I was just getting used to working it. However this is not the case. The gun is now much easier to close than before. As far as the springs I never see a change in those. So if I can ask what change should I see?

And by the Dave, thanks for this. This place and it's members never seem to disappoint. This is my first sxs so I kinda wanna keep her and get her working.




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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:34 am 
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New question Dave,

Is the ejector trip upon opening the gun supposed to roll up and clear the ejector spring? Or is it pretty much in the same position shown in the pic. when opened?

Because my ejector trips don't do anything. One moves a little but that's it. It does not clear the spring if it's supposed to. The other doesn't move at all. When I open this thing, looking at the bare forend metal you wouldn't know anything was supposed to happen if it weren't for the clicking sound it makes when opening. Everything inside just sits there.


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:34 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:04 am
Posts: 398
New question Dave,

Is the ejector trip upon opening the gun supposed to roll up and clear the ejector spring? Or is it pretty much in the same position shown in the pic. when opened?

Because my ejector trips don't do anything. One moves a little but that's it. It does not clear the spring if it's supposed to. The other doesn't move at all. When I open this thing, looking at the bare forend metal you wouldn't know anything was supposed to happen if it weren't for the clicking sound it makes when opening. Everything inside just sits there.


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:57 am 
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It is time to take the gun to a gunsmith.

This is like trying to troubleshoot an aircraft problem over the radio without seeing or touching the parts. It is just a series of guesses that may or may not come to the heart of the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:12 am 
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chorizo wrote:
It is time to take the gun to a gunsmith.

This is like trying to troubleshoot an aircraft problem over the radio without seeing or touching the parts. It is just a series of guesses that may or may not come to the heart of the problem.


Gee thanks for the optimism and the support.

I fixed the gun, they work perfectly now.

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:18 am 
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Vogelsong wrote:
chorizo wrote:
It is time to take the gun to a gunsmith.

This is like trying to troubleshoot an aircraft problem over the radio without seeing or touching the parts. It is just a series of guesses that may or may not come to the heart of the problem.


Gee thanks for the optimism and the support.

I fixed the gun, they work perfectly now.

Rick


I wasn't trying to short you, I was saying that sometimes complex problems require expert help.

I am glad you got it fixed,


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:23 am 
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Rick,

What was the problem and how did you fix it?

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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:24 am 
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Ok Dave, I'm happy to report that your questions and pics along with me being able to see the parts got my brain thinking. Please keep in mind, I have some mechanical know how I just have never seen the inside of one of these before. Since there aren't a lot of parts I was confident I could get her fixed once I understood the mechanism.

Your questions about opening and closing made the light bulb click on. And my question to you about the ejector trip and what it does got my thinking. Like I said the one moves a little upon opening the other not at all. So I answered my own question and figured they were supposed to roll up off the spring. So I opened the gun and sure enough, one moved a little. I mean a micro. If you didn't have the other to compare it to you wouldn't have noticed it. So the next thing I did was close the gun part way, and throw it open it moved more. Did this 2 more times until it finally popped the ejector. So I came to the conclusion that the angle needed changed a little on the trips so they would slide up of the spring easier. Took the whole mechanism apart, which was easier than I thought it would be, and decided to change the angle on the trips ever so slightly with a file. Put it back together and VOILA! Everything works as designed. They throw those snap caps a hellin.

Any way thanks Dave for all your help and getting me pointed in the right direction.

Your awesome.

As for Chorizo, I get it, sometimes these things can get ugly and can be hard to watch. I read threads like this sometimes with one eye closed waiting for a catastrophe.

Thanks again, everyone that contributed was a big help.

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:46 am 
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Location: Eastern Pa.
Rick, I'm glad you found out what the problem is and fixed it. I'm new to this type of gun also, but I love challenges, and Chorizo is right, it is tough to be a back seat driver.
Hopefully this thread might help someone else. From what I have seen on these Spanish side lock ejector guns is that they used the Southgate type ejectors. Fairly simple to evaluate as far as problems.
The one thing I dislike is how hard they are to open upon firing, and in closing. Like I stated before, after gun is fully opened, hammers are re-cocked but ejector springs still have to be compressed, and this is the drag you get when you close the gun. The cocking levers, upon closing are now putting pressure on the ejector roller (cam) to compress the springs and set them.

I do like the Zabala Derby 20 ga that came with a 28 ga. set of barrels. I believe only 300 made. Very nice combination.
Now if I can only find a set of double triggers to replace the SNS one.


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:00 am 
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To be quite honest, I have seen many more guns ruined with tinkering, some permanently, than I have seen fixed.

I am glad this turned out well


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:24 am 
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I could be wrong, but I thought that this is what this site is all about, helping someone.

If you don't have the slightest idea or some hand skills, then tinkering with guns is no different than tinkering with anything that you are not familiar with.

Like I stated before, my main interest is in L.C. Smith's. I have taken my fair share of them apart and fixed numerous problems only because I have seen the work of some "gunsmiths", when their real title should have been "gun butchers".

I know what you were saying in your statement, and I am also glad everything worked out ok for Rick.

Good shooting.


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 12:48 pm 
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I think a lot of the problem is that some people just don't know when to throw in the towel. Had I started fooling with opening this gun and not seen what was supposed to be happening my next step would have been the smith. At that point I have no clue and speculation usually ends badly. But once I realized the trip was supposed to be lifting off the spring and it was just very slowly. Then I knew I was on the right track and could take care of it. If that wouldn't have happened I would have given up rather than guess and butcher it.

Thanks all.

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:15 pm 
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David W wrote:
I could be wrong, but I thought that this is what this site is all about, helping someone.


What you are wrong about, is your inference that any suggestion other than what you suggest is not helping. Maybe you need to review several years of postings to find that, in fact, that what this site, and I, am about.

My suggestion was that after so much that didn't work, that maybe professional help was in order. There comes a point that, rather than goon something up, you need to get somebody to do it for you.

In this case, I was premature. The issue was resolved satisfactorily without intervention by a pro, thankfully.


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:40 pm 
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chorizo wrote:
David W wrote:
I could be wrong, but I thought that this is what this site is all about, helping someone.


What you are wrong about, is your inference that any suggestion other than what you suggest is not helping. Maybe you need to review several years of postings to find that, in fact, that what this site, and I, am about.

My suggestion was that after so much that didn't work, that maybe professional help was in order. There comes a point that, rather than goon something up, you need to get somebody to do it for you.

In this case, I was premature. The issue was resolved satisfactorily without intervention by a pro, thankfully.


The last thing I want to see is a perfectly good thread turn into a pissing match. But I want to point to Chorizo that you kinda didn't evaluate the situation properly when you said "after so much that didn't work." The fact of that matter was until I took the mechanism apart absolutely nothing had been done. The "so much that didn't work" in your eyes was just a lot of explaining, observing, and learning the mechanism. You can do that stuff till your blue in the face and your not going to hurt anything. Until you take the leap I did and actually take it apart and try and fix it.

I think that is another problem people have, and that is they get impatient with the diagnostic process, dive in, and before they know it they're in over their heads.

I wouldn't say Chorizo that you were premature. I think maybe you just thought there was more going on at the time of your statement then there really was.

Rick


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:45 pm 
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Vogelsong wrote:
The last thing I want to see is a perfectly good thread turn into a pissing match.


That being the case, this would be a good time to let it go :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:46 pm 
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Kyrie wrote:
Vogelsong wrote:
The last thing I want to see is a perfectly good thread turn into a pissing match.


That being the case, this would be a good time to let it go :wink:


{hs#


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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:32 pm 
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David;
Fantastic Posts;
I cannot thank you enough.
Chuck

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 Post subject: Re: My ejectors work intermittantly, what now?
PostPosted: Sat May 05, 2018 7:02 pm 
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Resurrecting this thread in case anyone with a similar problem comes across it and attempts some "home gunsmithing".

The Southgate ejectors that have been almost exclusively used for decades are a very simple, reliable system. There are only five parts total - a spring for each side, a tumbler for each side, and the axis pin upon which they rotate.

Adjustments to them are made by removing tiny amounts of metal from the springs. Metal should never be removed from the camming surfaces of the tumblers. Tumblers are much more difficult to manufacture and fit than springs are. If you mess one up, get your checkbook out.

As always, if you don't know what you're doing, don't do it.




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