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 Post subject: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:44 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:24 pm
Posts: 30
Does any one reload these? I can't find any data.




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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:31 am 
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Last edited by jtclays on Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:18 pm 
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Location: Missoula, MT
another discussion on trapshooters about this:

http://www.trapshooters.com/noframes/cf ... did=213385

seems to be a few people that load them - most suggest there are too many issues to load them safely and reliably to make it worthwhile.

john

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 9:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:24 pm
Posts: 30
Thanks for the responses. I'm not going to risk an accident to save to save a few cents


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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 8:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:44 am
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Add them to your garbage can.


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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 9:45 am 
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Location: Land of Political Corruption, just outside Gulag.
I reloaded a thousand of them and found that the crimps split after the first reload. ONE RELOAD AND IN THE GARBAGE CAUSED ME TO FORGET ABOUT THEM.
One club I belong to went to them because they are 20% less to purchase compared to Gun Clubs.,I just scrounge for GC's more vigorously now. They are a good new shell and cheaper to shoot compared to WW and gun clubs but a PIECE OF JUNK to reload.When I first reloaded them it was because their web site said they were reloadable but I found them lacking and could get NO, ZERO, NADA help from their US
distributor or the company in Spain.

I do use their primers but they are larger OD and you can not go back to domestic primers because the primer pocket is expanded and 209's will back out. They are about 20% less $'s than 209's. I have used about 5000 RIO primers with a hand full of misfires.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 1:14 pm
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Location: Eastern Pa.
If they have **** stars on the head they are Cheddites, and can be reloaded as such. The inner base wad looks exactly like the Cheddites, but I believe the actual Cheddites have a few thousanths more hull thickness. These could be their lower priced hull made for Rio.


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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:06 am 
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I can't say that I would reload the Rio hulls, however if you are looking for some plentiful, free huls to load once or twice I recommend the Fiocchi hulls. There is a lot of data for them in Lyman's 5th as well as the online guides from alliant and Hodgdon and I really like loading them. I personally only load them once and let them hit the trash bucket, but there are those who load them several times before the inferior plastic that they are made from bites the dust.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 3:04 pm 
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In my area Gun Clubs litter the ground on the sporting clays ranges along with the other "JUNK". Gun clubs are value price STS hulls and are worth loading. Not to mention there is a wealth of data for STS hulls and they load nice.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 11:01 pm 
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Location: Covington, WA USA
nnewuser wrote:
Does any one reload these? I can't find any data.

There is plenty of actual tested reloading data for Rio hulls as shown in these links below

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/VP05data.pdf
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/VP20%20data.pdf

And if you read April's edition of Shotgun Sports magazine, you will see where the editors contacted Rio, and Rio said that they will be publishing official Rio reloading data soon on their website. That said, and the tested reloading data above, there is no reason not to reload them, and there is no more risk to reloading them as there is in reloading a Winchester AA HS.

R


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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 7:08 am 
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Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2009 11:28 am
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As to the primer pockets being inlarged using rio primers. if you remove the primer and resize with mec supersizer they will then hold win or rem primers well.


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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:38 am 
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Last edited by jtclays on Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:28 pm 
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jtclays wrote:
Neither does Ballistic Products.

??

The above tested Rio reloading data links that I posted above actually came from the Ballistic Product web page... (HelarcoUSA actually).

And I don't understand your last photo - Federal hull with a paper basewad, which, as I understand from reading thru the posts over the years, is the only known basewad to have ever exited the hull into the barrel (re: Jugchokes threads on this a while back).

Much like AA HS's, the base wad can move, but not by much, and nothing that can't be re-seated during reloading. If reloading Rio's posed a safety risk, I doubt outfits like Balistic Products, and HelarcoUSA would be publishing tested reloading data, nor would the folks of Rio ammo be telling the editors of Shotgun Sports magazine that supported Rio reloading data is on it's way. Nor would Shotgun Sports recently do a cover-story article on reloading Rio hulls. Just my take on it.

Bottom line, if you don't feel safe with them, don't reload them. I think if they were unsafe, the folks at Shotgun Sports would have mentioned it. Shotgun Sports magazine, BPI, and HelarcoUSA all in ka-hoots with each other? Possible I suppose, but unlikely.

R


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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:52 pm 
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Location: lapine oregon
The light green RIO high brass hulls are good hulls, multiple reloads are possible. The cheap blue RIO hull is only a onetime reload hull in my opinion. As you sort the blue hull, about 30% are split after first factory load firing. At least from my RIO hulls this is what i find.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 5:53 pm 
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No hull with a separate base wad is completely safe. Or the shooters friend, let alone the reloader's friend.

And yes, AA HS base wads have been known to exit the hull. The "fix" that Winchester designed, did make them less prone to do so, but again, read that first, underlined, line above.

And one more time, any base wad that comes loose, is still "loose" after resizing, or "pushing it back down"! Once loose, it's forever loose.
It had a flange crimped into the metal base during it's manufacture, and no re-sizer on any home re-loader is going to re-cimp it again. (Which it a piss poor manufacturing process, in the first place!)

When that shell fires again, it is expanded to it's utmost, right out tight against the chamber walls. Anything "loose" (smaller in diameter than that expanded plastic tube), in that pressure chamber, will try to move right along with all the other ejecta.

IF the base wad makes a good seal, then and only then, can it be relied on to itself, expand in diameter from rearward pressure. If it has any leakage, then it becomes just another piece of "flotsam" surrounded by pressure, (gas that is trying to exit in the only direction possible), forwards, and will act the in the same way.

If it was not "close" to the same diameter of the inside of the plastic tube, it would leave the hull, virtually every time.

People have been known to deposit various objects, (beans etc.) in the shot cup, to keep the crimp from "dishing" inwards. By the same token, one could, (I am not advocating doing so here, but it would accomplish the same thing), simply put that bean or whatever in with the powder. It would leave the hull, and the barrel bore every time. But then, it just doesn't have that fairly "snug" fit, (drag/friction etc.) that the loose base wad has. (And that "interference fit" becomes even tighter, as soon as it makes it into the bore, past the forcing cone.) But somehow, there are some that are completely expelled out of the muzzle.

Everyone feel safer, reloading two piece hulls now?

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:25 pm 
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Last edited by jtclays on Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 6:54 am 
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There are enough empty Remington hulls laying on trap, skeet and sporting clay fields (and in their trash barrels) that I would not bother to pick up any other hull.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:14 am 
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Last edited by jtclays on Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:55 am 
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I'm not sure I'd use references in the shotgun rags as evidence that loading these is a good idea.

Journalists and forum enthusiasts are often at odds with each other--journalists dismiss the internet as a resource because everybody with a keyboard and an opinion is suddenly an "expert." At the same time, forum posters bash journalists because they are frequently less-than-informed.

In this case, the articles may provide a slight service--if all you have lying around is Rio hulls (like our Aussie friends), you can certainly make them go "bang." But I'd bet dollars-to-doughnuts the authors have no idea whatsoever about basewads cracking or migrating. And I bet if you challenged them on it they'd dismiss it as "internet rumor."

Bottom line? Load them if you're prepared to deal with straight-wall six-point crimp with Euro primer pockets, poor plastic and questionable basewads.


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 Post subject: Re: Reloading Rio 12ga Target shotshells
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:44 am 
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Last edited by jtclays on Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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