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 Post subject: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm
Posts: 17
hi

im from staffordshire england.
i have been offerd an a5 straight stock early a5

i already have a straight stock fn a5 with a full choke 22" barrel this other one has a 26.5" full choke barrel.

the guy has oferd it to me for £100 so i think its a good deal what do you guys think?

the blueing is worn and so is the wood but its not tatty .


Last edited by big mul on Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 2981
Location: East Mountains, NM
Sounds like a good deal to me.

Check this thread for detailed info on pre-WWII A-5's

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=216472


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm
Posts: 17
thanx for that.

i have just asked for the cerial no so i can date the gun.

i dont realy want full choke as i will be using it for sporting clays.
what choke would you recomend and whats the best way to get it ( open up origanal barrel, buy new barrel,install choke tubes on old barrel)?

my friend just got a 1953 a 5 28" half choke for £130 but it has just the browning head logo on the reciver and not the usual engraving. nice condition thoe .


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 2981
Location: East Mountains, NM
Part of that answer depends on the age of the gun, the earlier ones (atleast pre-WWI) had a barrel ring similar to the Remington 11 and will not accept later pre-WWII barrels. Plus, if it's a 16 gauge you'll have to deal with the short chamber unless it's been converted.

My solution to a tightly choked 30's vintage gun was to find a used barrel with a polychoke.

Opening it up will reduce it's value (although they're not high dollar to begin with). If the barrel is numbered to the gun, I'd try to find a used barrel and open that one if necessary, keeping the gun and original barrel intact.

I'll let someone with more sporting clays experience recommend a choke. :)


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm
Posts: 17
the guy has just emailed me and says it measures .714 what choke would this be?
if i had the gun here i could check for the star marks that indicate the choke.

sorrY for all the questions.

Ryan.


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:51 pm
Posts: 3832
Location: The Republic of Texas
Don't alter the barrel!
Use the 22" barrel as needed. I doubt it is Full because it's most likely been cut to that length.


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 2981
Location: East Mountains, NM
Many of the early guns did not use the star system, instead having the choke measurement stamped on the bottom of the barrel in millimeters. Slightly later ones will occasionally have the choke name (in english) stamped on the barrel.

.714 in a 12 gauge would be in the IC range IIRC.

Ask as many questions as you need.


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:35 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm
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I’ve got the barrel off and laid on my desk – I can’t see any choke markings so l’ll do my best to tell you whats printed on the barrel. With the muzzle facing left it has the following:



- Browning arms company St Louis MO



- * Special steel 12gauge shells 2 ¾” * then 1Kg 013 (Then a tear shaped looking symbol and the P / P/V (then something else that’s faded)



On the bottom on the barrel near the receiver end it says:



(some symbols) the BNP 12-70 850 BAR then a symbol that is crossed swords, then the numbers 183 then some more symbols (what looks like a K and then some symbols that look like 88



With the muzzle facing right it just says ‘Made in Belgium’



On the top of the breech piece that slides inside the receiver it says 3 / (with 279 written underneath) Then some symbols with PV written underneath.


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm
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the seller of the gun with the 26.5" barrel sent me the info above can you guys help me with the info please?

and the cerial no is 19366


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 5:54 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
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Location: East Mountains, NM
According to Martin's "Timeline" thread, 19366 should be 1905 a second year gun. I doubt it has choke markings per se, more likely the bore and choke diameters in millimeters. You said 0.714 in a previous post, which is 18.14 mm.

Is that 183 actually 18.3?

Keep giving us info, and pictures are especially good... we love a mystery here.


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:03 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 8:10 am
Posts: 539
Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi big mull,

Yes, SN 19366 would make it a 1905 gun. But the barrel is not a 1905 barrel. Definitely not, as the St. Louis MO address appeared not before 1930. Is there present on the receiver a number above the serial number? Something like 8M or the like? Does the gun has a cross bolt safety (introduced in 1951)?

The markings on the barrel in detail:

1kg013 = weight of the barrel when proofed at the Liege proof house: 1.013 kilograms

Tear shaped looking symbol: it might be the gauge marking of the Liege proof house: is there 12-70 inside the “tear”?

PV: smokeless powder proof

BNP 12-70 /850 BAR /crossed swords: British proofs. At some point, the barrel was reproved in the UK (I wonder why).

There should be present on the barrel a proof date letter. See here:

http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

If you can make out the proof date letter, you can find out, when the barrel was proofed (and made).

Regards

Martin

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Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm
Posts: 17
thanx for helping me out with this guys.

i do not have the gun yet. iv done the deal £100. and have just gota go pick it up.

the gun has the saftey at the front of the triggergard.
il try and add the pics the seller sent me later as im off to a classic motorcycle show now.

thanx again


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:09 am 
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It sounds like you got a good deal on a very old A5.

You will be able to tell if the barrel has been cut or modified after it left the factory by weighing it on a good scale since you know that it weighed 1.013 kg (35.733oz) when it left the factory. This barrel should be made later than, at the least, 1929. Sauerfan's estimate of later than 1930 is probably more accurate.

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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 12:11 am 
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Location: Hannover, Germany
big mul wrote:

the gun has the saftey at the front of the triggergard.



Hi big mul,

thanks fort he additional info. As it has the safety at the front of the triggerguard and as the SN is 19366, it is a 1905 made gun. Congratulations! You made a good deal at £100 ($154), even if the barrel and breech aren’t matching the gun. And the non-matching barrel and breech (breech is numbered, what was done on later guns) are explaining the presence of British proofs: Barrel and breech were replaced and consequently it was necessary by Law to renew the proofs.

Anyway, a 1905 is a very rare bird! I’d appreciate it if you would post photos of it!

Off topic (I just can’t resist – hope, you don’t mind): British gentlemen seems to have a weakness for early straight stocked Auto 5s. Especially a well-known gentleman from Scotland refused to take a Remington 1100, but demonstrated with a classic straight stocked A5 how to shoot clays from the hip….. :lol: :lol:
Image

Regards

Martin

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm
Posts: 17
I cant quite figure out how to get the pics off my email and on to here.

and thank you for that picture of mr bond ( the one and only real bond)!!
the barrel on his a5 does look short in that picture?

hopefully i will show the guys at the sporting clay range a thing or two with my streight stock a5!


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 2981
Location: East Mountains, NM
Here's a thread about posting photos.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=172986

The barrel on 007's A-5 looks like a standard 26", which is actually 25" and change (that strange metric stuff). You usually see the 28" barrel, so the smaller one's really look short. I have a straight stock 16 ga. with a barrel that length.


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Posts: 539
Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi big mull,

big mul wrote:
( the one and only real bond)!!


Yeah! Sean IS Bond! All others are mimics. And “Thunderball” is one of the best Bond of all times (personally, I’d rate it #2 – “Goldfinger” is #1. Maybe because “Goldfinger” Gerd Fröbe is a very good actor and well-known in Germany).

big mul wrote:
I cant quite figure out how to get the pics off my email and on to here.


Ill send you a PM with my email address. Send the photos on to me and I’ll post them here.

Regards

Martin

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:13 pm 
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Location: Hannover, Germany
Hi Tijeras_Slim,

Tijeras_Slim wrote:
that strange metric stuff


well, it’s probably just a matter of the system with which you grew up. We “Metrics” do have our problems with calculating in fractions. 2 ¾” or 2 9/16” is a little bit “strange” for us….. :wink:


Regards

Martin

_________________
Value? Open an auction at GB or AA and in two weeks you'll know exactly....


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 1:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 9:22 am
Posts: 2981
Location: East Mountains, NM
Martin,

I'll be the first to admit the metric system is a whole lot easier to deal with when it comes to tools and thread sizes. :D And of course you are right about "the only true Bond!"

Regards,

Slim

I'm looking forward to seeing big mul's gun.


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 Post subject: Re: straight stock a5
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 2:09 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:59 pm
Posts: 17
i have emailed the pictures across. they are the only ones i have right now.
when i pick the gun up i will take better pictures.

would it be ok to maybe re blue the gun and refinish the wood?

i am an automotive painter by trade i work at central tvr.
we specialise in high end high performance cars.
i was going to paint the stock with a marble effect paint but now iv found this forum i realise the finest auto loading shotgun in the world deserves better than that.
but would a re blue and re oil of the wood spoil it?


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