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 Post subject: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:50 am 
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Location: M.I.
I know that they aren't as good sellers as adult models but this sucks I have called every gun shop in a 150 mile range and all I have been able to find is a remington youth 20. I really want to look and feel the franchi 720 youth and al48, berretta youth, benelli. When it comes to kids we all talk a good game but I don't think anyone really cares to get them involved. Ill fitting equipment is the best way to ensure they have a bad experience and never bother going again.

really frustrated in souther M.I.

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 12:37 pm 
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You have experienced what more and more adults are finding when they attempt to find guns that fit their kids, especially smaller kids, younger than ten or twelve, for example.

The main reason manufacturers don't make many guns for kids (and dealers don't stock them) is that the sales volume just isn't there. another problem is that the vast majority of parents do not know how poorly fitting guns increase felt recoil and how poorly kids will be able to shoot when their guns don't fit (to say nothing about their slowed improvement with practice).

Probably the worst part is the absence of a solution in the near future. Manufacturers will make smaller guns (and youth stocks) more available only when the market exists. So far, it doesn't.

Kids still struggle with guns that are too large and heavy for them, put too much weight on their back feet and suffer increased felt recoil and difficulty swinging to targets as a result.

Bear in mind also that kids grow quickly and at any age vary considerably in size. That makes fitting them and keeping them fitted as they grow an even greater challenge. It can be expensive for knowledgeable and concerned parents (and coaches).

Kids can be kept fitted only when their overseer knows how growth affects gun fit and what dimensions will likely need to be changed, sometimes annually.

The major problems kids face are grips that are too far from triggers, combs that are too far below guns' ribs, and stocks that are too long with butts that are too large.

Shortening most stocks (and decreasing the height of the butt at the same time) is relatively easy. Changing the height of the comb isn't that much more difficult (though more expensive if an adjustable comb is installed).

There is very little that can be done however, to move small hands closer to the trigger. They have to be slid up and forward on the grip, which creates shot-timing difficulties as a result of having pull up rather than straight back on the trigger.

And if these problems aren't enough, many parents do not know the shooting form (gun mount, body/head posture, stance) that their youth should use (but will be able to use only when their guns fit.

Might the guns that interest you be able to be special ordered by dealers?

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:12 pm 
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Twoteal,

What stores were you calling?

UMH

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:40 pm 
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Rollin Oswald wrote:

Might the guns that interest you be able to be special ordered by dealers?



Thats the problem, ordering one without seeing it in my kids hands is some thing I don't want to do.

I have a good foundation of "shooting form" but I have trouble getting my son to keep from arching his back. the other bad is he is right handed left eye dominant.

The remington just seems like a tank of a gun. he can shoulder it but its gonna be a few years to get in shape enough to be proficient. I really want to see a franchi/beretta in his hands then try to decide on 20 or 28. the cost of the shells is irrelavent to me but availability would be an issue.

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 8:15 pm
Posts: 30
Look up Mossberg 510 mini. Looks like a real youth shotgun. Tom Gresham was talking about it and was saying that the stock is 12 something inches and the grip radius is smaller so the trigger reach isn't so far. Looks like the ticket to me.


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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 3:46 pm 
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UMich Hunter 95 wrote:
Twoteal,

What stores were you calling?

UMH


Cabelas, Bass pro, shooters service, all the ganders in the 150 mile radius. I have yet to get through to Guns Galore or Jaquas.

Also wanted to mention that my son can handle the heck out of the Rossi .410 but he is getting tired of missing due to the nature of the shell. also we have only shot at Island lake.

Thanks for the help guys

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:34 pm 
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Yeah, I frequent those stores a lot. Guns Galore seems to have a good selection and very good pricing from what I know. They are significantly lower than Gander and Cabelas but getting them on the phone is another story. I hope you find what you're looking for. I'd check the Beretta 390 20 gauge if you can find one. Check Michigun, The HockShop, and On Target. On Target is in Kalamazoo, but they have a ton of guns.

UMH

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 5:40 pm 
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Location: M.I.
UMich Hunter 95 wrote:
Yeah, I frequent those stores a lot. Guns Galore seems to have a good selection and very good pricing from what I know. They are significantly lower than Gander and Cabelas but getting them on the phone is another story. I hope you find what you're looking for. I'd check the Beretta 390 20 gauge if you can find one. Check Michigun, The HockShop, and On Target. On Target is in Kalamazoo, but they have a ton of guns.

UMH


You are the second guy to have mentioned On target, will be calling them tommorrow for sure.

Thanks for the help.

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 6:14 pm 
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Hey TwoTeal,

Been there. I bought my daughter an 1100 youth, and then found out that she didn't have the strength to shoot that, so it's in the safe for when she grows a little more. (the gun weighs about 7 lbs.)

For now, she shoots an H&R topper youth model, so I understand about your need to upgrade from that gun.

Williams Gun Sight in Davison has a site that lists their used guns, maybe you can find somethign there. I also believe that if you can get down to Jaquas, they will allow you to shoot a used gun on their range if you're serious. (Call ahead on that one.)

Have you had a chance to shoot and handle a youth gun? Sometimes folks at the local ranges will allow a youth to try a gun. Up here, there are also 4-H shooting clubs that have Beretta Youth (A-303s/3901s I think) for their loaner guns.

I hope this helps,

Maggs


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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:11 am
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I went looking the other day for a 20 youth hoping top find a semi auto. We went to big 5 and they did not carry a single youth shotgun at all, i was surprised.
We ended up going to another gun shop and they had mossbergs, 2-3 different yourth models, bantam, mini, super mini or something. Neat guns but a little pricey here all were pushing $400


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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:21 am 
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Location: wisconsin
How about an H&R Pardner compact pump 20 gauge. MSRP 233 dollars in black according to their site. 13 in. LOP and 6 1/2 pounds. I picked up a used one and it works pretty good for the smaller shooters, composite stock, smaller wrist, nothing fancy but it works.

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 8:58 am 
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When my son needed to mofe up from his Remington 870 youth at the age of 9 1/2 (which happened after only about 4 months of shooting that thing) I bought him an inexpensive 20 gauge O/U from CDNN (Fausti brand, about $500.00) and cut down the stock. The gun shot loose pretty quickly, after about year and a half, but that was long enough for him to grow into a full size 12 gauge O/U or semi. His Fausti weighed only about 6 pounds and was easy for him to handle. At 12 Y.O now, he can manage to shoot 4 rounds of Skeet with an adult size gun.

It is a pity that the Remington 1100 youth size guns weigh so much. We have a couple of small kids who shoot them in our junior shotgun program, and it is a struggle for them to hit anything, or to hold the shotgun properly, simply because the guns weigh so much, and the kids weigh so little. They fit the youngsters well, they just weigh too much.

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:00 pm 
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Beammeupscotty:
My experience is that kids who start out with weight of the gun as a problem get stronger very quickly. if they do a little light weight training with dumbells they can even shorten that time.

Twoteal:
Do you have a Scholastic Clay Target program or a 4H shooting sports program in your area? You might be able to see and even use a youth gun that way to have it in hand before you order it. these are excellent programs. You might even be able to buy a gun as someone moves up to another gun.

I strongly favor the Beretta 3901 for kids. They are very soft shooting.

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 6:22 pm 
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Twoteal wrote:
Rollin Oswald wrote:

Might the guns that interest you be able to be special ordered by dealers?



Thats the problem, ordering one without seeing it in my kids hands is some thing I don't want to do.

I have a good foundation of "shooting form" but I have trouble getting my son to keep from arching his back. the other bad is he is right handed left eye dominant.


This is an indication that the gun weighs too much. He also probably has too much weight on his back foot, which increases the chance of cheek slap.

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 9:01 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:12 pm
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Location: M.I.
Thanks again guys,

I will look into the 4h club, I hve never heard of one localy but the search continues

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 Post subject: Re: Kids shotguns??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:14 pm
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I dont know if your wally world still carrys guns but they used to have a 390 20 ga that you could reduce stock length an inch by taking out a section.Has the shim system also. I have a 12 and 20 and have been very reliable. Soft shooting not too heavy.
The shim system is the best but its better than nothing.
Berretta makes the a3901 rl target and call it a youth gun, stock can be shortened and i think it is with an adjustable comb. I think its 12 ga only.


The other issue is trying to start them too soon. My sons been duck and goose hunting with us since he was four., 15 now. He is small. everyone kept asking him when he was going to start shooting. I have a 410 and the 20 ga and we went out maybe once a year and he shot. I then quit taking him and waited for him to tell me he was ready. In between we threw pop cans and charcoal pieces for him to shoot with his BB gun.

Two years ago he told me he was ready. We made sure the gun fit and practiced. First day he pops up out of the blind and dumps two geese. Im excited and tell him 2 for 3 was great! He says I only shot twice!! He shoots good and makes us look pretty bad.

Turns 16 in august.He gets a new 12 ga and lessons from a local expert.


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