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 Post subject: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy)
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:22 am 
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I posted this over on ar15.com, but I figured you guys would appreciate it as well. :)


Since AR15fan's excellent post has been lost to the archives, I decided to post more information about the Winchester "Military" 00 Buckshot that is on the market.

Many retailers talk about how great this buckshot is because "Its Mil-Spec so it has to be good". Since the proof is in the pudding.... lets find out.

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The 2 loads I'm comparing this buckshot to is the cheap Winchester Super-X 00 buckshot that can be found virtually everywhere that sells shotgun shells, and the great Federal Vital-Shok. The Winchester Super-X is very cheap as you can usually find the 15 round Value-Packs at Wal-Mart for $10. The Federal Vital-Shok is Federal's top-of-the-line 00 buckshot, and it shows in quality & price. A box of Vital-Shok usually runs about $5.60-$7.00 a box locally.

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As we see here, all the loads have the familiar star crimp. The Winchester shells look exactly the same except for coloration. You will also notice that the Vital-Shok shell has a dip in the crimp. This is because it was kept in a loaded 870 for about a year. Shells will deform in your magazine tube, so be sure to switch them out occasionally (I usually change out every year).

Now on the the main course:

We will start with the Federal Vital-Shok 00 Buckshot

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The Vital-Shok is very well made. It has a plastic shot cup, plastic wad, sand-like buffering, and the pellets are copper plated. Before the Flite-Control wad came about, this has always been the best patterning 00 buckshot in every shotgun I've owned. This is a quality load because it has about everything you can do to get a tight pattern with buckshot.

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I'm also using Bob Brister's method of using a pair of Channelocks to test how hard the lead really is. (More on this later in the thread).

Now lets see how the Winchester Military 00 Buckshot compares:

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Not good at all. There is buffering (much larger than the Federal), but it has unplated shot & no shot cup. Just a couple of cardboard wads, and a plastic disk covering the powder. This will lead to horrible patterns compared to a premium load like the Vital-Shok. Very disappointing, and really not all that "High-Speed, Low-Drag". Its also made very cheaply, which means its not worth the premium some retailers are selling it at.

Now lets compare it (and the Vital-Shok) to the common Winchester Super-X 00 Buckshot:

Image

Wow........ its made EXACTLY like the Military 00 buckshot except not in OD green. Literally, its exactly the same on the inside. The uber-cool Military 00 buckshot has the same internal components as the plain jane Super-X 00 buckshot which is dirt cheap and available all year around.

Well, lets check Brister's method of checking how hard the pellets really are:

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The Super-X & Military Buckshot are pretty soft. The Federal is very hard, and patterns will be much smaller compared to unplated buckshot.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-

So surprisingly it appears that the Military buckshot is literally Super-X buckshot with a OD shell body, and blackened brass. I could have sworn that the Super-X line used to have a plastic shot cup a few years ago, but it appears Winchester has cheapened it even further. If you are wanting a cheap 00 buckshot load, I'd look at the Remington Express 00 buckshot since Remington still uses the Power-Plus Wad. I've usually had better patterns with it over the Super-X over the years.

The Bottom Line

* The cool Military buckshot is literally Super-X that you can buy at your local sporting goods store throughout the year. Same components & same construction. If you are paying a penny more for the Military buckshot, you are being ripped off.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:01 am 
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Well done Sir.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 7:33 am 
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I thought I had found plastic shot cups on the ground after shooting the Super X bu the ones I have are pretty old and didn't come from a 15rd pack. I also may just need to step away from the crack pipe. When I tested them I got a little bit tighter and more regular patterns from the Super X than I did from the green ones. Unfortunately I didn't have my camera when I shot the green stuff as it was an impromptu "hey let's shoot this stuff". The military stuff also recoiled a little more than the Super X that I have. Perhaps the slightly better patterns are from a lower velocity. Perhaps I still need to step away from the crack pipe.


Thanks for the comparison. Very informative.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 8:43 am 
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But johnny, you're not the same person when you're sober...

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:17 am 
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Posted in the other thread too, but thanks for posting this.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:58 am 
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I bought a box of that military stuff buckshot once to see how it did, but unfortunately I never got to test it because me and my bro used it (along with several boxes of #4 buck) to kill fruit and cheap canned baked beans. But I will say it is a huge ripoff. I can buy a box of Federal powershok buck (appears the same as as vital shok, but not plated) for $4.60, or a box of the military stuff for $5.50. It seems your paying for the "coolness" of mil-spec camo ammo.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:12 am 
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I thought we already established..
sjohnny wrote:
The green ones are environmentally friendly. I stay away from them.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:27 am 
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thanks for that info i have been eye balling those mill spec shells.
so you recommend rem express 00 buck for a cheap round for practice and even HD maybe
what would you guys recommend for a premium 00 buck round for the ultimate HD and doomsday round, something you could trust your life to and go to combat with?

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:43 am 
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Any of the Flite Control loads.
For practice, birdshot.
I would not use cheap as a qualifier for HD.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:04 pm 
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after a bit of looking around on federal's website only their PD 00buck rounds have FC. so im guessing those are the shells

also what to look for in a slug for a cylinder bore HD type shotgun? rifled slugs? tight patterning to 75-100 yards would be ideal.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:45 pm 
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m24shooter wrote:
Any of the Flite Control loads.
For practice, birdshot.
I would not use cheap as a qualifier for HD.


All this.

I also use the Winchester Super X buckshot for practice because I was given a big load of it

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:51 pm 
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alt154shiver wrote:
But johnny, you're not the same person when you're sober...

That last word in your post........ I'm unfamiliar with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Well done.

Just as expected.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:26 pm 
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I've also did a comparison on ar15.com of the Remington Express since its my favorite "cheap" 00 buckshot load. Plus I was curious if Remington has cheapened it like Winchester did the Super-X line.

Remington has always advertised that their 00 buckshot has carried the Power Piston Wad, but the other Express buckshot loads have not (#4, #1, #0).

However since Winchester has cheapened the Super-X line, lets see if Remington has done the same to the Express line. Plus since they updated their website, it doesn't say anything about the Power Piston wad anymore. This was bought a couple months ago, so its still new production.

Image

Nope, it seems that Remington has still kept their Power Piston Wad, buffering, and their crimp is much harder to open compared to the Winchester. Of course, the lead is unplated.

Image

The lead is softer than the Federal, but it was a bit harder to crush compared to the Super-X.

Since the Remington Express usually sells for $1 more per Value Pack than Super-X, I'd be more inclined to buy it instead for cheap 00 buckshot. I've found it patterns better than Super-X..... not much better, but enough to justify the added expense.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:35 pm 
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Old_Painless wrote:
Well done.

Just as expected.


Thanks O_P.

Even though my presentation is far behind your level of excellence.

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"I'll stick with what I know. You two just keep circle jerking with ammo manufacturer's data." Originally posted by Spurrit on why steel barrels are valid forms of ballistic testing.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:24 pm 
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Thanks for this, you spared me the expense of testing out the winchester military stuff. Strange thing is the Super X stuff patterns tighter than the remington in my 870, 500 and 930. The hulls are weaker as you mentioned. In my new 930 with a new choate extension they would crimp along the edge of the hull and place a slight cant on the shell making them hard to feed manually.

I will be testing and patterning again this weekend.

Your presentation was awesome. Is that a tactical paper towel?


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Mr_RPM wrote:
also what to look for in a slug for a cylinder bore HD type shotgun? rifled slugs? tight patterning to 75-100 yards would be ideal.


Best thing is to try different brands in your gun. Brennekes seem to work well for some folks. But tight patterns at 100 yards with a smoothbore is ambitious.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot46_4.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 9:30 pm 
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I just realized: you have to dispose of that powder from those shells! Here's what I did. I put powder from one shell on a piece of aluminum foil, and set that in the bathroom sink. My cat got curious and decided to watch from the counter next the sink. I put a match to it, the powder burns in a huge fast bright flame, burning a hole hough the foil and absolutely scaring the sh*t out of my cat (he still is a very brave cat though). Have fun!


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:06 pm 
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I can see that ONCE AGAIN I have to be the voice of reason around here. That gunpowder is actually a very good fertilizer. Just spread it on your lawn and it really healthies up the grass.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester/Olin Military 00 Buckshot Compared (Pic Heavy
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 10:52 pm 
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As I understand it, premium Buckshot that sits in a shot cup is not "00" at all but actually the next smaller size, "0" so that it will still fit in the shell because the sleeve of the shot cup takes up a little more room.

Everything is a trade off.

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