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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:06 pm 
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Well, I can't resist bashing BPI a bit here. They deny anything and everything. I have purchased a lot of stuff from them including the Power Skiver which is worthless. I mean completely worthless. After I test a few more shells fixed with another solution I will post more on this experience but suffice it to say that if you have a problem with ANY BPI product, the fault will be yours because you don't know what you are doing. :twisted:



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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:04 pm 
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SteedGun, thanks for the support. Joe Kuhn on trapshooters.com has to shoot steel at his club. He has reported the VP60 steel shot wad doing the same. Take note at the first paragraph of the letter sent to me, the VP wads are designed to be thin. Could that be a problem? 10tenner


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 3:08 am 
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Location: UK, England, Britain
Tenguage wrote:
SteedGun, thanks for the support. Joe Kuhn on trapshooters.com has to shoot steel at his club. He has reported the VP60 steel shot wad doing the same. Take note at the first paragraph of the letter sent to me, the VP wads are designed to be thin. Could that be a problem? 10tenner


from BP
LOAD OF THE WEEK 2010/08/17
Steel (non-toxic) Dove/Pigeon
Light weight loads in the larger gauge result in HIGHER velocities. Velocity comes free with no extra charge. Often, additional velocity may be added. With steel shot in a steel cushioned wad, amazing velocities may be created. In the larger gauge, with very light loads, few propellants offer shot to shot consistency of pressures and velocity. There are two propellants that meet the bar of launching very light weight shot loads with great consistency of speed and pressure. Alliant BULLSEYE and Hodgdon TITEWAD. The following loads were made with #6 & #7 steel pellets.

L0AD# 100810-2389C
HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75”
PRIMER: FIO616
PROPELLANT: HODGDON TITEWAD 22.0 Grains
WAD: VP51 (12ga) + NC20 in wad base
SHOT: ½ oz. (218 gr.) STEEL #6 or #7
CRIMP: FOLD OS12 over the shot

Result: PSI 7400 FPS 1570
L0AD# 100812-2394C
HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75”
PRIMER: FIO616
PROPELLANT: HODGDON TITEWAD 26.0 Grains
WAD: VP51 (12ga) + NC20 in wad base
SHOT: ½ oz.(218 gr.) STEEL #6 or #7
CRIMP: FOLD OS12 over the shot
Result: PSI 8800 FPS 1780



L0AD# 100812-2396C
HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75”
PRIMER: FIO616
PROPELLANT: HODGDON TITEWAD 23.0 Grains
WAD: VP51 (12ga)
SHOT: 5/8 oz. (273 gr.) STEEL #6 or #7
CRIMP: FOLD OS12 over the shot
Result: PSI 8800 FPS 1600

L0AD# 100812-2399C
HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75”
PRIMER: FIO616
PROPELLANT: ALLIANT BULLSEYE 22.0 Grains
WAD: VP51 (12ga)
SHOT: 5/8 oz. (273 gr.) STEEL #6 or #7
CRIMP: FOLD OS12 over the shot
Result: PSI 8700 FPS 1560

L0AD# 100812-2401C
HULL: FIOCCHI 12ga 2.75”
PRIMER: FIO616
PROPELLANT: ALLIANT BULLSEYE 24.0 Grains
WAD: VP51 (12ga)
SHOT: 5/8 oz. (273 gr.) STEEL #6 or #7
CRIMP: FOLD OS12 over the shot
Result: PSI 9300 FPS 1655

i`m going to try these, the vp51 is a tougher wad. i asked to help me with a 1/2oz load, and they came up with this. its for the pigeon shooters here in uk, some have to use steel, as the food goes to birds of prey. lead is a no-no.
some guys have been using BBs to shoot at pigeon. 1, -1,1/8oz of bbs ! thats crazy. shell availability here is poor, due to the cip mandate. some steel loads only go 1000fps. the maximum speed aloud to be sold is 1400fps.

i`m going to load some up for skeet (practice) sporting, and wing shooting. i`ll load the 1/2oz with 9-8s and for sk and esp, and 6s in 1/2oz and 5/8oz for decoyed birds.


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:09 pm 
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Tenguage wrote:
I supplied BP with 10 shells. Here is a letter, and data:

Image

I live in very dry conditions out west, hulls were stored in a dry storage shed, have used three other wads with the same load, and even changed primer on one reload, and no off sounding shells with those other wads.

Image

Do not know why only six shells tested? Supplied ten. If my hulls were bad it sure does not show it in the results. My hulls were twice fired.

Image

You can decide for your selves, I have my own conclusion, and it does not look good on the part of BP, they have dismissed the photos of the fired wads. 10tenner


Boy, I dunno Tenner ...

There are a lot of things wrong with that letter, but if I didn't know better, I'd say that it looks like they are calling you out on this one. ("throw down" in street lingo terms)

So....

(and it's even got ME thinking now). Maybe it's possible that even though you are getting burn-thru's, maybe it really isn't affecting anything (as measured with a chrono).

So what needs to be done is, number a bunch of wads with a sharpie, or in some way that you can identify them after fired. Chrono test a slew of them, and then retrieve the wads, and "tag" them with the measured chrono numbers. If we can have proof of actual chrono figures for each and every fired wad, we can confront them again on this.

Sounds like I need to get involved a bit here. I did promise to also test these for you (retrieve the wads). Problem is, I think I'm out of VP-13's.

Technically, they are correct, - we (you?) don't have proof that a burn-thru on a retrieved wad actually caused a blooper, or a sub-par shot (chrono wise). Lets get more data on this and attack it from 2 fronts.

Also, and due credit where due, - it's still pretty standup of them to actually test your shells in a professional manor and send a formal response, - a whole lot better than one particular un-named wad manufacturer here that can't/won't/didn't do that. This alone may have value in that there might be a remote chance that they are professional enough to work with the community to actually fix things (redesign) like Ron at Claybuster did with the 6100's.

MM3


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:27 am 
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Quote:
Technically, they are correct, - we (you?) don't have proof that a burn-thru on a retrieved wad actually caused a blooper, or a sub-par shot (chrono wise). Lets get more data on this and attack it from 2 fronts.

I have been reloading for over 35 years. I shot reclaimed wads before using new ones. I know what a bad wad does. Example the disconnected Red WAA12R. Another good example when Hevi Shot first came out I used the SAM 1 10 ga wad. First flight of geese dropped two and the last shell was weak bird kept on going. Found the wad, the Hevi Shot had ripped through The base of the cup allowing the gases to escape. Now I use the MM wad. My first reloads with the VP13 And the VP15 were
12 2.75 Fiocchi Fio-616 Green Dot 21 VP13 none 1 1/8 Lead #8 8800 1220 my busing is throwing 21.5 grs. I noticed a considerable reduction in recoil with the VP13 wad, and was not getting the breaks in the birds as I was with the VP15. When I shot the ClayDot load the recoil was minimal, and bits of plastic could be seen going out in the air. Anytime you have a leak in gasses the PSI drops and the velocity drops. BP is not going to change there mind, since millions of wads have been fired. I took those reloads apart before BP even contacted me, and I am not even sure I sent them them the bad lot, as I have more than one lot. It could even be a single mold issue. I have some VP10 wads that the center section, or the arch on some VP10 wads are completely filled in, so this indicates a mold issue. I do not have time to do a study right now, hunting season is staring in 12 days. I still would like to know what they did with the other 4 shells, could it be some bad wads found, I do not know, it they took the shells a part to see what powder charge, etc, why not reload them in new hulls and test them?
Last I tried same reload, and even changed the primer Noble Sport 209 to see if it was the CLAY DOT powder. Shot GU1225, Nobel Sport NSGT24, and XXL Orange wads with no problems. I even shot box of XXL Orange, and NSGT24 last Saturday, and box of NSGT24 wads last night. If I am right BP is indicating in the letter Clay Dot is not balistically the same as Clays?
Take a VP 13 wad and in the rectangular section push with a pen. Now do it with another brand of wad. Vp13 wad will compress and allow indents, and if I pressed too hard will give way and puncher. I cannot do this with the other wads I tested with Clay DOt. What I can do is take the 4 wads, and trim them to see the top of the powder cup thickness. 10tenner


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 2:21 am 
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Tenguage wrote:
BP is not going to change there mind, since millions of wads have been fired.

I wouldn't say that T.g. ... - Ron Jr. at Claybuster took it upon himself to re-make the mold for the CB-6100 to correct the powder cup which wasn't sealing properly. Yes, granted Ron, and his operation is a cut above the rest in that he has the ability to make his own molds, but over and above that, it's clear that Ron is also a practical business man who knows what the right decision is when confronted with a problem and a situation.

Based upon what I've seen so far, I have faith that BPI/HelarcoUS has people who are also of the same caliber as Ron Jr. at Claybuster, and can influence the HelarcoUS plant managers to make a change. That's my gut feeling. The reason I say that is, (and I think you'll agree), is the level of passion for "attention to details" that they appear to have as illustrated in their reloading data. They have more comprehensive published data for their wads than anything I've ever seen. Hell, there are other wad makers here who won't even post any data on their wads much let alone even post pictures of their wads on their web page.

I may be wrong, but I just don't see the BP/HelarcoUS folks as being a bunch of back-yard mechanics just punching out bits of plastic on some old injection mold machines in the back of some warehouse somewhere.

Tenguage wrote:
, and I am not even sure I sent them them the bad lot, as I have more than one lot. It could even be a single mold issue.

It could be. Accurate data is important. The mold cell/section numbers are stamped on the inside of the shotcup.

Tenguage wrote:
I still would like to know what they did with the other 4 shells,

Me too. But unless you gave them the exact numbers of 461.7 grn's payload, and 19.80 grn's of propellant (and they took that for granted), they would have had to cut some of them open to take measurement samples, right ? Also, why don't you just call them on the telephone and talk to them and simply ask them?

Tenguage wrote:
, it they took the shells a part to see what powder charge, etc, why not reload them in new hulls and test them?

Then they wouldn't be "customer loaded shells", in "customers hulls" ...

Tenguage wrote:
If I am right BP is indicating in the letter Clay Dot is not balistically the same as Clays?

Correct, - Clay Dot is NOT ballistically the same as Clays. I've done more than enough testing to prove that point already. It may be "close", but it's not the same. It's about 35 fps hotter than the same charge weight as Clays, which means that the pressure is also higher. It also seems to have a sharper recoil.

Moreover, your data that that you received from them sort of illustrates this. i.e., 19.80 grn's of Clay Dot under 461.7 grns of shot averaged 1,244 fps, whereas 19.5 grn's of CLAYS under only 437 grn's of shot averaged 1,183 fps. Granted, not an apples-to-apples comparison, but at a glance, I don't think that a .3 grns reduction in powder under a payload that is 24.7 grn's lighter is going to yield a velocity that is 61 fps lower.

Tenguage wrote:
Take a VP 13 wad and in the rectangular section push with a pen. Now do it with another brand of wad. Vp13 wad will compress and allow indents, and if I pressed too hard will give way and puncher. I cannot do this with the other wads I tested with Clay DOt. What I can do is take the 4 wads, and trim them to see the top of the powder cup thickness.

Unfortunately, I'm out of VP-13's, - is there a way that you can send me some to test? (PM me).

I did however, find a few VP-05's up on the bench, and so I did this measurement for you. The powder cup thickness is .050. The Bossi wad (used in factory Rio's) is .070, and the Claybuster CB-6100 is .080 as shown :

Legend (left to right): Claybuster CB-6100, Bossi A-28-1, HelarcoUS VP-05
Image

A little more of a close-up of the same photo:
Image

I'm a bit interested in this saga, and willing to put a little more effort into it all before I totally throw in the towel on the HelarcoUS VP-13 wad. And the reason is simply because my testing data was so darn encouraging. Yes, it's a cheap-arse looking wad, and yes, I too have noticed the bits of plastic flying out in the corner of my eye when shooting them at night under lights at my Wednesday night trap shooting venue, but the chrono data, and the powder migration qualities, and price/availability aspects of the VP-13 are were so compelling, that I believe that it's worth attempting to work with these people to get it right.

MM3


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 10:16 am 
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I shot a bunch of VP-05 a couple weeks ago along with some DR-XL, Winchester SL, Guilandi 22, and Federal S4 wads. I recovered a few of each wad to compare performance. At first I thought the Helarco VP-05 wads were good, but after seeing the photo above of the .050 powder cup I looked a little closer and noticed the powder cup is damaged. There is a tiny split in the plastic that protrudes into the cushion section of the wad. Not good.

The load I used was:
Nobel orange Trap Gold 1x fired hull.
20.0 grains Hodgdon Clays powder
VP-05 wads
7/8oz #8.5 lead shot
I didn't write down the primer, but I only have 2 types Winchester and Nobel.

I will post pictures later


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:09 am 
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Quote:
I may be wrong, but I just don't see the BP/HelarcoUS folks as being a bunch of back-yard mechanics just punching out bits of plastic on some old injection mold machines in the back of some warehouse somewhere.
I deal with molded covers that are in the steering wheel of your vehicle. Two weeks ago the tooling broke, and another cover was suspect, flashing in one of J-hook openings. Quality engineer passed them, but they did not look good. A mufti-million dollar operation, still can have Quality control problems. Another example, the Nissan emblem was not being welded property on the sonic welder. I told the Quality engineer to look at the discoloration of the plastic. He then had the plastic analyzed, and they found out the resin the vendor was using was out of speck.

Quote:
I did however, find a few VP-05's up on the bench, and so I did this measurement for you. The powder cup thickness is .050. The Bossi wad (used in factory Rio's) is .070, and the Claybuster CB-6100 is .080 as shown :
That proves the base wad is not thick enough, and the plastic is not as rigid as well.

That is good information about Clay Dot verses Clays.

Quote:
I don't think that a .3 grns reduction in powder under a payload that is 24.7 grn's lighter is going to yield a velocity that is 61 fps lower.
I use a deep crimp, and could be the increase in the PSI, and some velocity, but the increase of 61 fps with a heaver payload indicates a difference in powder. Look at the MSDS of the two powders, They are listed on both Hodgons, and Alliants web site.

Quote:
Then they wouldn't be "customer loaded shells", in "customers hulls" ...
Still does not matter we are wanting to look at the the wads.

Quote:
I shot a bunch of VP-05 a couple weeks ago along with some DR-XL, Winchester SL, Guilandi 22, and Federal S4 wads. I recovered a few of each wad to compare performance. At first I thought the Helarco VP-05 wads were good, but after seeing the photo above of the .050 powder cup I looked a little closer and noticed the powder cup is damaged. There is a tiny split in the plastic that protrudes into the cushion section of the wad. Not good.

Some more proof of the the weakness of the wad.


Last edited by Tenguage on Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:13 am 
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here are the pictures. They are not very good. Sorry

New and Fired Helarco VP-05 wad
Image

Side view of Fired and New VP-05 wad. Notice small bulge from powder cup into cushion section on fired wad (bad lighting)
Image

Fired and New powder cup of VP-05. Notice deformation or bulge and split in fired cup
Image

0.005 shim stock placed in crack/slit of powder cup on fired VP-05 wad
Image

0.005 shim stock placed in damaged VP-05 powder cup. Shim goes from powder cup into cushion section
Image

Just some side comparisons of the collapsed cushion section other wads.
The wads are VP-05, Guilandi 22, Winchester WAA12SL.
Second picture is DR-XL, DR-XL-WJ, F12S4

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:19 am 
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Smelly Benelli, thanks for posting the pictures. The arch above the powder on some of the VP10 I have are completely filled in. I do not know if it was intentional for support, or a mold issue. 10Tenner


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:58 am 
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Tenguage wrote:
Smelly Benelli, thanks for posting the pictures. The arch above the powder on some of the VP10 I have are completely filled in. I do not know if it was intentional for support, or a mold issue. 10Tenner



I just looked at my bag of VP-10 wads and noticed the same thing. It doesn't look like a mold issue. It looks intentional.

Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:10 pm 
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I cut down a VP 13 wad and measured .044.
Image

I cut into the rectangular section and it measured .036

Image


Last edited by Tenguage on Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:31 pm 
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Tenguage wrote:
Smelly Benelli, thanks for posting the pictures. The arch above the powder on some of the VP10 I have are completely filled in. I do not know if it was intentional for support, or a mold issue. 10Tenner

Wow, this whole thing is rather interesting....

T.g., you've mentioned numerous times that the VP-10 seems/looks beefier, and since I don't (or ever did) have any VP-10's here,the closest I do (photo wise) is to just post side-by-side photo's of the actual photos that are on BPI's website :

ImageImage

If you look closely where the crush column meets the powder cup, you can see that there are more contact points on the VP-10. Further, and maybe this is just the lighting in the photo's, but it appears that the cross sectional ares of the width of the roof of the powder cup can be seen thru the edges of the cup, and it does seem thicker. Again, it might just be the lighting/photo.

But thanks S.B. for posting the photo's of the VP-05, - that's more information that we didn't have before.

So it would be good if posters here (S.B., "me", and others") would be willing to approach BPI on this. If they don't already know in their heart-of-hearts that there is a real problem here, I think we all need to do what we can to work with them and point this out. If their entire customer base turns on them, they will be forced to make a change, and/or lean on the Helarco folks in Florida to do something about this.

But the burning question in my mind remains, - how was I not able to pick up on this especially since I was such a big promoter of the VP-13 here in the forum ? As I've said, my chrono testing yielding such encouraging results, and the 3-4 flats of Fiocchi's that I shot thru my Benelli Cordoba worked so well, I just don't understand. Granted, 10-30 test shots over a Chrono isn't a large sampling, but one would think that 3-4 flats would be.

So S.B., before seeing these posts, did you happen to notice a degradation in your shots with those VP-05's that have the cracks/slits burned into the powder cup ? Did any of this show up in your chrono testing ?

Anyways, I think that we should all start to approach BPI on this, including sending them photo's, and test results, and sending them the actual cracked/burnt/split wads. As I said, the more of us that do this, I think the better our chances of getting them to move on this and making a change. I know it's a bit of a hassle to take time out to do this, but I think we owe it to the reloading community.

In the mean time, I guess we still have the Claybuster CB-6100, and their CB-2100 to fall back on for 1-oz in the Fiocchi/Eurotrash hulls, so it's not the end of the world.

MM3


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:38 pm 
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Tenguage wrote:
I cut down a VP 13 wad and measured .044.

Hopefully that thing has current calibration, and/or you were able to check it with a second micrometer.

If so, this indicates that there is at least a .005 difference between the thickness in the roof of the powder cup between the VP-05 and the VP-13. Which could stand to reason actually if you look at S.B.'s photo's of fired VP-05's who's splits are not quite as drastic as your photo's of the VP-13.

MM3


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:39 pm 
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Mokeman, I will take a photo of the VP13 and VP15 more contact with VP 15. I took additional measurement, new picture above.
Quote:
Hopefully that thing has current calibration, and/or you were able to check it with a second micrometer.

I have a 1 in micrometer, and they read the same. 10tenner


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:47 pm 
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Tenguage wrote:
Smelly Benelli, thanks for posting the pictures. The arch above the powder on some of the VP10 I have are completely filled in.

So you are saying that you actually have VP-10's where this is not filled in ??

If so, do you see them mixed within the same bag ?

This is significant (in my mind). This would indicate that they (Helarco) ARE tweeking the molds of some of their wads in the background, and so they may actually be silently engaged in all of this. At minimal, it is evidence that they did in fact change the VP-10 based on these photo's (when compared to the photo of the VP-10 that they have posted on the website).

I do still see a ray of hope here in seeing the VP-13 fixed in the future here. However, if BPI, and/or Helarco continues to be unresponsive to this situation, I think we owe it to the community at large to also inform the editors of Shortgun Sports magazine of this situation as they have a larger captive audience, and this might also help change BPI's mind on the gravity of the situation.

http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/st ... cts_id=663

Not only is BPI reaping the rewards of the endorsement article by Shotgun Sports magazine, the credibility of Shotgun Sports magazine itself gets called into question, especially since they (Shotgun Sports magazine) went on to do yet another piece depicting Helarco wads in glowing light in the Rio reloading piece:

http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com/st ... cts_id=686

Granted the whole subject of Rio hull reloading has always been in question, but the bigger issue is the Helarco wads which are being promoted. ergo, the hull itself no longer matters if the wad itself is failing. Everyone has a vested interest in getting this situation corrected.


MM3


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:13 pm 
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Mokeman3 wrote:
Tenguage wrote:
Smelly Benelli, thanks for posting the pictures. The arch above the powder on some of the VP10 I have are completely filled in.

So you are saying that you actually have VP-10's where this is not filled in ??

If so, do you see them mixed within the same bag ?



MM3



The pics I posted of the VP-10 were from a new sealed bag of wads. I opened the bag after reading tengauge's post above. I think I bought the bag about 6 months ago.


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 6:23 pm 
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Mokeman3 wrote:

So S.B., before seeing these posts, did you happen to notice a degradation in your shots with those VP-05's that have the cracks/slits burned into the powder cup ? Did any of this show up in your chrono testing ?

MM3



I didn't chronograph any of my loads, so I would know if there was a significant amount of degradation. I never really looked at the VP-05 wads too closely before reading this post because I was hitting more targets with the 7/8oz loads.

I was more interested in whether the crush/cushion section of the wad was straight after firing. If you look at the green and purple Downrange wads in my pictures above, you can see that the purple wads cushion section collapsed straight and the green wads cushion section is twisted. All the green wads were twisted and all the purple wads were straight. The Guilandi wads were slightly off center.


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:18 pm 
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Ok, as promised, - I spent some more time looking into this today ...

I shot 2 boxes, - 50 1-ounce loads made with HelarcoUS VP-13 wads at the patterning board today.

The first box was ~19.1 grns Clay Dot in clear Fiocchi hulls, and the second box was 19.7 grns of Clay Dot in orange Fiocchi hulls. I was only able to find 24 of my fired wads (geeze, what a hell-hole down in front of the patterning board, - can we get someone to clean that up down there ?).

Test conditions:
==========
Date: 8/21/2010
Time: 15:00 - 16:00
Temperature: 73 Deg F
Chrono: Pro Chrono digital
Gun: 30-inch Browning XS Skeet
Choke: Carlson extended tube "SKT"
String size: 12-14 shots

Data:
===

Strings 1 & 2 (S1 & S2) were assembled as follows:
Payload:1 oz #8
Hull: twice-fired clear Fiocchi
Wad: HelarcoUS VP-13
Primer: Fio 616
Charge: ~19.1 grns Clay Dot


Results (S1):
H: 1260
L: 1207
Avg: 1236
ES: 53
SD: 17

Results (S2):
H: 1257
L: 1222
Avg: 1247
ES: 35
SD: 11

Strings 3 & 4 (S3 & S4) were assembled as follows:
Payload:1 oz #8
Hull: twice-fired orange Fiocchi
Wad: HelarcoUS VP-13
Primer: Fio 616
Charge: 19.7 grns Clay Dot

Results (S3):
H: 1285
L: 1259
Avg: 1270
ES: 26
SD: 9

Results (S4):
H: 1291
L: 1239
Avg: 1266
ES: 52
SD: 16

There were no signs of bloopers, off-sounders, or anything even remotely close to a weak load as felt by recoil. Just 50 solid-ass "Whap's!" as a blast of #8's pulverized against the big thick pattern board some 20 yards away.

I first attempted to go down and retrieve each wad and label it with the chrono speed, but THAT got old REAL quick! Best I could do was to separate out the wads that I could find from each of the two boxes tested, but that didn't quite pan out either as each time I went down there after each shot, I either couldn't find the wad, or I might have picked up a wad shot from the previous box.

Towards the end, I figured out where to gaze my eyes before taking the shot, and I was able to see (in flight) where the wad was bouncing back to. Never took my eyes off of it, and walked down to get the wad.

So here's what we're looking at. My actual Post-it note box labels are below the wads:
Image

Almost every wad had it's feathers plucked either in flight, or from slamming into quarter-plate at 900 Mph:
Image

Some had the roof section of their powder cup blown so far up into the cushion section, that it even flipped up backwards out of the base of the cushion section on the top side of the powder cup:
Image

Closer observation:
Image

And some are torched up quite a bit:
Image


I'll be on the telephone with BPI first thing Monday morning.

MM3


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 Post subject: Re: * VP 13 Wad (Blown Powder cup)*
PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:26 pm 
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Posts: 18390
Location: Knoxville, Tn area Nyuck, Nyuck
Ain't it amazing what a measly several thousand PSI's will do to a wad while kicking its butt down the barrel.



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