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 Post subject: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:59 pm 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:59 am
Posts: 646
Anyone able to give me a little history about the Winchester Model 23?

When was it built? Where was it made? Who made it? Start & stop dates? Original price?
Current price/value? Good features? Bad features? Special features?

I'm curious and have heard good things about it.

I tried the search feature for this board, but couldn't come up with much of anything. I'll appreciate your comments.


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 Post subject: Re: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:08 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:14 pm
Posts: 71
There was win model 23 and 24 I think they made the model 23 just around 1940 and think they where made till early 60.S I know they came in many grades and field grade being most made I do not know what they cost new but see them in gun list quite often. a decent shape one now would start at 600.00 to 900.00 depending on shape they are very nice but where ment to be a working mans side by side at the time buying one was not all that high just a bit more than a model 12 in the better grade I am not sure when the model changed from 23 to 24 I have only seen one in my life here in Alaska Maybe there are some winchester buffs on the forum that have a few books on them or some in a collection I wish I had a clean 12 ga to hunt with I know they can be found in ruff shape loose and such . Kim


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 Post subject: Re: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:35 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:51 pm
Posts: 6278
Location: E. Rochester NY
Sorry, but that's the Model 24 that you described.

The Model 23 is a newer whole different gun in a whole different class. It was made in different grades, as well.

It is a lot more expensive, too.

BobK

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BobK


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 Post subject: Re: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:04 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2467
robert146,

The Winchester Model 23 was built by Olin-Kodensha in Japan and introduced in 1978. The list price in 1981 was $1,150.-. The Model 23 differs in design from the earlier Models 21 and 24, the latter being possibly the ugliest SxS ever produced in the States. The Model 23 was offered in six versions plus some "commemorative" grades (one such being the Grand Canadian). When discontinued in 1987, the Pigeon grade listed for $1,460.-, the Classic was $1,750.- while 28 gauge and .410 bore were priced at $1,850. A "Custom" two barrel set (20 & 28 gauge with full fancy walnut and a fitted leather luggage-style case was listed at $4,650.-. Current values range from $500.-(poor) up to $3,400.-(Exc.) for the Light and Heavy Duck grades while the Golden Quail may go up to $4,500.- or more with .410 bores bringing an extra 10%.

IIRC, after being discontinued by Winchester, some Model 23's together with the Model 101 over & under were imported and sold under the Classic Doubles brand. The plant in Japan also produced a Model 201 SxS which I believe was to be the successor to the Model 23. The short lived Model 201 has a different frame design that appears to have a longer watertable somewhat reminiscent of the Winchester Model 21, as well as, changes to the locking lug and ejectors. IMO, the profile of the Model 201 more closely resembles the Winchester Model 21 than the Model 23.

The Model 21 Winchester was introduced in 1931 and was a personal favorite of John Olin. Although listed as a production gun, it was essentially hand built and could be ordered with a number of options. Approximately 30,000 were built during a 28 year production run. In 1960, manufacture of the Model 21 was transferred to Winchester's Custom Shop where another 1,000 or so guns were made until the firearms operation was sold to U.S. Repeating Arms. Values of Model 21's typically run from the mid-four figures up to the five figure range depending on gauge, options and engraving. Model 21's are now built by CSMC who claim to be the "Custom Shop". There appears to some dispute as to whether the CSMC Model 21's are authentic or replicas. Prices now start at five figures.

Winchester's Model 24 was introduced in 1939 as a medium priced double. Its appearance has been described as being two single barrel shotguns sharing a common frame. Price when
introduced was about $30.+/-. The Model 24 does not appear to have been very popular as only some 116,000 guns were made. Due to its simplicity and reliability, this model has a loyal following. Current values for the Model 24 range from $200.-(poor) up to $650.-(Exc.) subject to the usual condition factors, etc..




Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:08 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 3237
Location: WA/AK
Winchester Model 23’s -- During 1978 a flier introduced the Model 23 XTR Pigeon Grade in 12- and 20-gauges with 26 or 28 inch barrels and half-pistol grip.

1979 & 1980 Catalogues -- ditto

1981 Catalogue -- Added the Model 23 XTR Lightweight in 12- and 20-gauges with straight grip and 25 1/2 inch barrels. All the guns up to this point shown with black plastic butt plates with a whiteline spacer.

Olin Corporation dumps the U.S. firearm manufacturing business. Keeps the ammunition and the imported shotguns from Japan.

1982 -- Olin/Winchester catalogue same six variations as 1981, but they now have a thin rubber butt pad.

I've got nothing for 1983. Though not cataloged, the Golden Quail in 28-gauge was introduced in 1983 and in 20-gauge in 1985.

1984 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- same six plus -- 12- and 20-gauges with 25 1/2 inch barrels with Win-chokes and half-pistol-grip stocks; and the limited edition Model 23 Heavy Duck with a capped full pistol grip and a blued receiver.

1985 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- Same except limited edition is 20-gauge Light Duck.

1986 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- The original four variations gone -- introduction of the Model 23 Classic in 12-, 20-, and 28-gauges and 410-bore with engraved and blued receivers and gold bird on the bottom -- The Model 23 Custom, a 20- and 28-gauge two-barrel set with gold birds on the sides as well -- The Model 23 Golden Quail in 12-gauge with straight grip and 25 1/2 inch barrels choked IC/M (just the same as the Model 23 XTR Lightweight but different engraving).

1987 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- Model 23 XTR Lightweights and the original half-pistol grip models with Win-chokes gone -- The Model 23 Classics in all four gauges continue and the Model 23 Custom two-gauge set -- new additions are another Model 23 Custom in 12-gauge 26-inch barrels with 6 Win-chokes and a plain blued receiver profiled like a Model 21, and a Model 23 Golden Quail in 410-bore -- also they still have some Model 23 Golden Quails in 12-gauge and some Model 23 Light Ducks left to move!!

1988 -- Winchester Classic Doubles -- The Model 21 look alike Model 23 Custom gets 27-inch barrels and is called NEW -- The Model 23 Classic continues in all four gauges while they still have those limited edition 12-gauge and 410-bore Golden Quails and the Model 23 Custom two-barrel 20- and 28-gauge sets to move.

Olin unloads the Japanese gun business.

The Classic Doubles 201 is really more closely related to the Parker reproductions then the other Model 23s.


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 Post subject: Re: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:22 am 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:20 am
Posts: 347
Doppelflinton,
Do you have any information on the Model 22 ?


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 Post subject: Re: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:06 am 
Presentation Grade

Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:59 am
Posts: 646
Thank you very much. I did not realize that Winchester ever had a proprietary interest in a Japanese manufacturer. I thought they just contracted with various builders on a "build to spec" basis for some models. Was this model a U.S. design or Japanese?

I am told that the Model 23 is a fine quality gun and desirable if you can find one. Too bad it is gone.


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 Post subject: Re: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:05 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2467
avvago,

The only reference I have to a Model 22 Winchester is the 22-01473 Multi-Tool, sort of a Swiss army knife crossbred with a pair of pliers. Neither Madis nor Shideler list a
Winchester Model 22 firearm. However, there were (and maybe are still) some models made exclusively for the European market. IIRC, Lanber of Spain private labelled one of their O/U models for Winchester to sell on the European and perhaps the U.K. market. Unfortunately, I don't recall the model number. Hopefully, one of our correspondents across the pond can shed some light on this topic.

Researcher01,

Thanks for filling in the blanks on the Model 23 history. My old references don't even mention the Model 23 until about 1980 or 81 and the value guides are sparse on history.


All the best, gents!

Doppelflinten



Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: Model 23 SxS History?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:14 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2467
avvago,

Sorry for the delay in this response. A little research shows that the Winchester Model 22 was a 12 gauge SxS double built by Laurona in Spain to Winchester's specifications for sale on the European market. It was introduced in 1975. It was fitted with a checkered pistol grip stock and a semi-beavertail forearm. The frame was hand engraved and the finish was black chrome, not blued. Current values can range up to about $1,000.- or more subject to the usual condition and demand factors. It and the Winchester Model 91 O/U, also built by Laurona, are considered rare in North America.



Montani Semper liberi


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