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 Post subject: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:25 pm 
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I am pretty new to shotgunning and I have a decent pump shotgun. I am pretty good at shooting clays and I want a gun that will help me to improve and give me a little more motivation to keep clay shooting. I don't have a lot of money so I want a gun that I can use to hunt pheasants with too. I really want an o/u because they look great and are very classic. I know that some people swear by these $3,000+ guns but I just don't have the money for it. Is there a gun that is less than $1000 that I won't be disappointed in? Also What gauge should I get for clays and pheasant hunting. I usually shoot trap but i am trying to get into skeet and maybe sporting clays. I am also o.k. with a semi-auto.


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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:21 pm 
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This is an impossibility. All the hunters complain about the weight of the gun so, it has to be as light as possible. All the clay shooters complain about the recoil so, it has to be as heavy as possible. Unless you find an old lady who's husband died 20 years ago and is cleaning out the closet, you won't find an O/U that will stand up to regular clays use for less than $1K.

Let me sum up; you want an O/U that is both light and heavy, has good pointing characteristics and balance, will stand up to thousands of rounds a year and costs less than $1k. Did I miss anything?

There are used Citori hunting guns in your price range, but they will beat you up at the range. Now, if you're willing to man up and carry an 8.5lb gun into the field, you will find many guns that will work for you, but you'll still pay at least $1K for a good one.

My favorite gun for what you want is the BPS Trap. It's heavy enough to reduce recoil at the range and still a good hunting gun. Next would be a Rem 1100 Competition. You can find these for less than $1K pretty regularly.

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 9:24 pm 
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Rastoff has given you good advice... what you want simply doesn't exist...

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:07 pm 
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Thank you rastoff, i have decided that I could go up to $1500 or so and I don't mind the recoil for shooting at all, i am kind of a big guy and I can keep a gun in control. I guess that the main thing that I want is a versatile gun due to the fact that i don't want to have to buy another gun just for a few weeks of pheasant hunting. The main thing that I want is a clay shooting gun. I never said that i wanted a gun that would stand up to thousands of rounds a YEAR. I don't shoot that often. I have shot the citori in a 20 gauge and loved it and the stoeger condor in a 20 gauge and couldn't hit anything. What is it that makes it such a difference.


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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:28 pm 
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"
I have shot the citori in a 20 gauge and loved it and the stoeger condor in a 20 gauge and couldn't hit anything. What is it that makes it such a difference."

It's the cost of course. The more you spend the better you will be at breaking clays. Don't forget you can't win unless you have Muller chokes in what ever gun you choose.

( Or it might have something to do with fit and trigger pulls between a Citori and a condor!
But it's some likely the COST)


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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:28 pm 
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There are three main differences: fit, trigger and balance. A fourth thing is quality.

The trigger on the Stoeger is abysmal. This alone will throw off your timing bad enough so that you will miss. Of course if the fit and balance are different, it won't matter who makes the gun, you'll shoot them differently.

The quality difference is key though. The Stoeger is fine if you want a gun that you will shoot one box through in a year. Clay shooting is another thing altogether.

When you shoot clays, most shoot at least 100 rounds when they go to the range. Go once a month and you've put 1,200 rounds through your gun. So, you can see how most clay shooters put many thousands through their guns in one year. By the time this year expires I will have put about 10K rounds through my guns and 6K of them will be through one gun. I'm not considered a high volume shooter.

Further, any gun worth its salt will be able to handle thousands of rounds without trouble. This is normal for any quality gun.

So, $1,500 will buy any number of good used guns. I recommend a Sporting style gun for your purpose. It will be heavy enough to help with recoil and swing and can still be used effectively in the field. The first O/U I would point you to is a used Citori Sporting Clays edition. The second would be a Beretta 686 WOS.

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:15 am 
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chase10chase wrote:
I don't mind the recoil for shooting at all, i am kind of a big guy and I can keep a gun in control.

Funny thing recoil - I can't explain exactly why it bothers some people a lot yet others don't really notice it. What I can say is that physical size and/or strength is pretty irrelevant, and it may even be that lighter built people absorb it more easily.

As to your options I'd agree that a pre-loved sporter by Beretta or Browning would the wise choice. 12 or 20 depending on how many hours you're likely to spend carrying it.

Personally, I'd find it less tiring to carry an 8lb gun for 10 hours than shoot 250 clays with a 6lb gun.

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:05 am 
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You don't mention how much target shooting compared to hunting you'll be doing. If you're looking and shooting targets to make you a better wing shot and hunting upland then I would suggest looking around for a 20ga. sporter or a gun like the Browning Citori Lightning that you liked. They'll not so heavy that it will wear you out in the field yet built stout ehnough with enough weight for the riggors of clays and will hold up. You can find a nice 20ga 425 for $1500 that you could go with a 30" barrel if you wanted.
There's really no one perfect gun but good compromises.


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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:55 pm 
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There was recently another thread in the general section that covers things a bit more and even has an alternative that just might surprise you: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=235383

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:06 pm 
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Rastoff wrote:
So, $1,500 will buy any number of good used guns. I recommend a Sporting style gun for your purpose. It will be heavy enough to help with recoil and swing and can still be used effectively in the field. The first O/U I would point you to is a used Citori Sporting Clays edition. The second would be a Beretta 686 WOS.


I would add a Browning Cynergy to the list.

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:27 pm 
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Kraiza wrote:
I would add a Browning Cynergy to the list.

Yes, and $1,500 would be a good price for a Cynergy Sporting. I think this one will be less prolifically available these days though.

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 4:31 pm 
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I have a 20 gauge o/u field model that is a favorite of mine to shoot for informal clays. 6.5 lb with 3" chamber. Light enough to carry, but heavy enough to swing well and absorb recoil on clays with 7/8oz loads. Most importantly, I shoot well with it in the field and on clays. There are very good patterning 1 1/4 oz pheasant loads in 20 ga if you need them. I find 1oz to be plenty.


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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:36 pm 
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Beretta 686 WOS 30" would be my suggestion. You can find them used for a pretty fair price. I paid $2018.18 out the door for mine new in Aug. 2009. THEY ARE GREAT, GREAT GUNS for the money.

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:43 pm 
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Just some food for thought....in the long run, the gun is the cheapest part of the equation...you'll wind up spending far more on shells, targets, and hunting expenses than you will on the gun...even if you buy a $10,000 gun. That is the truth. If you think you are an exception to this rule, then don't buy a new gun, just shoot your decent pump gun....spend the 1500 on lessons, shells, and targets.

Start a gun account and save up some more money. THEN go buy a really good gun that you will be proud to own for the rest of life. Use the time lag to learn more about shotguns, shoot as many good guns as you can, and really get a handle on what you really want. You will be glad you did.

Ask me about my collection of "low cost" shotguns that sit unused in the back of my safe....if I had known what I know now, there would be an extra good shotgun in the safe and not 4 low cost thrashers. It's hard to save money when you keep spending!

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 4:21 pm 
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Trickster wrote:
chase10chase wrote:
I don't mind the recoil for shooting at all, i am kind of a big guy and I can keep a gun in control.

Funny thing recoil - I can't explain exactly why it bothers some people a lot yet others don't really notice it. What I can say is that physical size and/or strength is pretty irrelevant, and it may even be that lighter built people absorb it more easily.

As to your options I'd agree that a pre-loved sporter by Beretta or Browning would the wise choice. 12 or 20 depending on how many hours you're likely to spend carrying it.

Personally, I'd find it less tiring to carry an 8lb gun for 10 hours than shoot 250 clays with a 6lb gun.


The issue with recoil is not whether you can control it or handle it...the issue is your subconscious mind. If subjected to repeated recoil (different threshold for everyone), eventually your subconsious mind won't let you pull the trigger, no matter what your conscious mind says. That is known in shotgun circles as a flinch. It might take 500 rounds, it might take 5 million rounds, but sooner or later it will happen. For a given person, it is likely to happen sooner with a harder recoiling gun. It doesn't make any difference how tough you are. Do yourself a favor and don't shoot a lot of targets with a gun that has heavy recoil.

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:47 pm 
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CDNN Winchester 101 12ga. 28" Reg Retail $1799.99 ONSALE $999.99

Great gun great price.

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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:01 am 
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+1 on what shogan191 said...

The FN-built Winchester 101s are the nicest shotgun nobody has heard of. They are built by FN and backed by Browning service. Check 'em out before you buy.


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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:55 am 
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No one has mentioned FIT yet...

You said you're a big guy... if that means tall / long arms/ long neck... you might be like me and have trouble with a "sporting" gun that has a buttstock with far less drop at comb/heel that a similar "field" gun... I had serioius problems keeping my cheek on the wood when I "upgraded" to a "sporting" model... I could do it, but not naturally. I think if you shoulder a few guns you'll see what I mean.

As far as guns ... I would suggest you look for a Beretta 686 12 gauge or if you're interested in an autoloader... a Beretta 391 or Benelli would be in your $1000-$1500 price range.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Best gun o/u for Clays/hunting
PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:17 pm 
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Find a old Browning Superposed Broadway trap with 30" tubes fixed M/F..Light enough for hunting
and can be bought for under $1K...


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