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 Post subject: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:05 pm 
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Location: Huntsville/Houston TX
on alliants site it says that its the equivalent to hodgdons clays powder, but what do yall say that have used it are they bascially the same, which would yall prefer?



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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:12 pm 
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Location: Elizabethtown, PA
I perfer Clay Dot, it's the same but cheaper and American made.

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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:19 pm 
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berettaclayshooter wrote:
I perfer Clay Dot, it's the same but cheaper and American made.

so its really clean burning?

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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:32 am
Posts: 203
Location: Shores of Lake Ontario
Alliant developed Claydot to drop like Clays and produce the same ballistics; chemically they're two different animals; performance-wise, I can't tell the difference. I use Claydot for the price. It's clean burning if you use load data that develops enough chamber pressure to get a solid burn and use components that work well together...but then the same is true of Clays. If it cruds up your bore, it's not the powder's fault.


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 4:48 pm
Posts: 1754
Location: Richmond, VA
Yes, it's very clean; I'm on my 4th jug later this week.

Here's my 12 ga load.

Rem Blue Magic or STS or WW AA HS
17.3-17.5 gr of Clay Dot
clear duster 7/8 wad... wonderful wad and slick
NS209
7/8 oz #8's.

Should be going about 1200-1210 FPS. Destroys targets, and easy on the shoulder.

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Browning XS Special, 30" Invector + Midas grade chokes
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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:23 pm 
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I stick with Clays. I like the Hogdon website and reloading manuals and all the data for support Just "use the other guys data, we copied his powder" approach sorta turned me off to Claydot. If I loaded in the middle of the charts I would not have any concern. But my interest is in lighter, slower loads. Probably can use the same data, but then when you go to 3/4 oz load, substitue cb wads for Federal wads because they say you can, nobel primers for Win primers, and use Clay dot instead of Clays, are you really loading a tested load? Or do they sometimes just go Poof?


Last edited by Bill M. on Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:49 pm 
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Location: Route 66 New Mexico
I have loaded Clays and Universal for so long with such excellent results I just plain refuse to change. Be advised I didn't vote for change. :D I considered a cheaper powder once then when the numbers were crunched what I would be saving was something like .25 a box. I guess if I can't afford the two bits for a quality powder that has performed excellent for many thousands of rounds then it's time to get out of the game. Same applies to primers and wads as well............Let me ask this question: How many "poofers" are in your shell bag???

TM

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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:11 pm 
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Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Tin Man wrote:
I have loaded Clays and Universal for so long with such excellent results I just plain refuse to change. Be advised I didn't vote for change. I considered a cheaper powder once then when the numbers were crunched what I would be saving was something like .25 a box. I guess if I can't afford the two bits for a quality powder that has performed excellent for many thousands of rounds then it's time to get out of the game. Same applies to primers and wads as well............Let me ask this question: How many "poofers" are in your shell bag???
.

Now this advise would also come from someone who probably refuses to shop at walmart and insists on Winchester 209 primers. Hey I'm sorry but I vote with my wallet. I work damn hard for my money and what I get to spend of it on my shooting I like to maximize. Clay Dot is a copy of clays, If you can't beat um, copy um. I haven't had a single problem with it. And to answer Tinman: No bloopers here, I don't load anemic loads, I prefer 1,250.

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682 Gold E sporting
687 EELL 20/28 GA
391 Gold sporting
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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Location: SW Pennsylvania
+1 Tin Man: I've thought about changing to clay-dot but feel as you do. Clays has worked well for me and the difference is about $12 for the 8#keg. Take that and divide by the # of shells I load and the cost is pennies. I stay with Clays. JMHO

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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:55 pm
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Location: Montana Territory
Tin Man-
There are zero 'poofers' in my shell bag. No worries though, I don't mind you spending more for the same end result, it just makes that broken clay that much more satisfactory for me. :D

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Ash wrote:
Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my boomstick! It's a twelve gauge double barreled Remington, S-Mart's top-of-the- line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right for about $109.95. That's right.


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:32 am
Posts: 203
Location: Shores of Lake Ontario
You can look at the difference in price another way...

I've been loading Claydot since Oct of '05. I'm on my 45th jug loading for 2 people. At an average difference of $15/jug over that time, I figure I'm ahead about $700 on powder as compared to buying Clays. To the people who can't see saving 25¢ a box...I can live with the difference.


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:55 pm
Posts: 3046
south.texas.dead.I wrote:
on alliants site it says that its the equivalent to hodgdons clays powder, but what do yall say that have used it are they bascially the same, which would yall prefer?

The powders are NOT the same, - already been thru that ordeal. Not only do they LIE on their web page (i.e. their: "no need to change bushings" is total BS), but for the same given charge weight (when you DO change bushings), it's a tad hotter than Hodgdon's CLAYS, and it doesn't meter well, especially thu the Red PC baffle (does better with no baffle). After two 8 Lb kegs, I went back to Clays, and will stay there. Not worth it to me to have to readjust the press (because it's more dense than Clays), and it's not interchangable, bushing wise, or performance wise. If you like it, have at it, but thems the facts.

MM3


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:54 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:32 am
Posts: 203
Location: Shores of Lake Ontario
Mokeman3 wrote:
... Not only do they LIE on their web page (i.e. their: "no need to change bushings" is total BS)... and it doesn't meter well, especially thu the Red PC baffle (does better with no baffle).
I suppose them's the facts if you use a MEC. but I've not seen that in several P-Ws. Maybe it's the plastic parts in the MEC that affect the metering because I didn't see a difference when I switched to my first jug of Claydot and I still don't after #44. And having to change bushings is almost a given; powder density varies from lot to lot and certainly from powder to powder. For me, it just wasn't enough to matter.


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 9:58 am 
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Thanks Goest, for sharing your experience with us. That is a lot of reloading.
Could I ask what wads and primers you have settled on for your target loads?
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 10:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:32 am
Posts: 203
Location: Shores of Lake Ontario
Bill M. wrote:
Thanks Goest, for sharing your experience with us. That is a lot of reloading.
Could I ask what wads and primers you have settled on for your target loads?
For the 1 oz loads I use Remington hulls, green DR XL-1 wads and Winchester primers; for the 1 1/8 loads I use blue XL-1 wads and the same primers.

When I get into loading 1 oz in AA hulls I use either the DRA-12 or the green XL-1 (depends: old or new hull) and the Federal primer.


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 4:58 pm 
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Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Moke: I have loaded clays, forget what bushing I used. But with Clay Dot it meters well for me with a PC powder baffle through my mec. I get +/- .01 difference on my drops.

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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:55 pm
Posts: 3046
berettaclayshooter wrote:
But with Clay Dot it meters well for me with a PC powder baffle through my mec. I get +/- .01 difference on my drops.

Clay dot will not meter with +/- .01 grain variance thru the red PC baffle with any drop-to-drop consistancy. The issue is, to see the "clogging" (and cycling) effect that Clay dot has thru the red PC baffle, you need to weight many consecutive drops as the powder bottle traverses different power levels over, and below the 1/2 way point. I have done this, writting down hundreds of consecutive drop weights, and these effects are clear to see on paper, especially when related to the level in the powder bottle.

Clay dot, however, does meter pretty well (clog free, cycle free) without any baffle, and almost as well using the Metal baffle made by MultiScale.

If you are not concerned about cycles, and swings as high as 1.0 grain as bottle heights transitions around the 1/2 way point in the (short) powder with the red PC baffle, then don't worry about it, and do your own 'thang' with your red PC baffle, and Clay Dot and don't worry about it.

MM3


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:26 pm
Posts: 232
I haven't noticed much difference in the two.Just the price


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:15 pm
Posts: 2219
Location: Western Washington State, USA
Bill M. wrote:
I stick with Clays. I like the Hogdon website and reloading manuals and all the data for support Just "use the other guys data, we copied his powder" approach sorta turned me off to Claydot. If I loaded in the middle of the charts I would not have any concern. But my interest is in lighter, slower loads. Probably can use the same data, but then when you go to 3/4 oz load, substitue cb wads for Federal wads because they say you can, nobel primers for Win primers, and use Clay dot instead of Clays, are you really loading a tested load? Or do they sometimes just go Poof?


I checked both Alliant's web site and the paper Alliant Reloader's Guide they both have many recipes for Clay Dot. Are you questioning Alliant's data?


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 Post subject: Re: hodgdon clays vs alliant clay dot
PostPosted: Tue Oct 19, 2010 8:22 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:55 pm
Posts: 1252
Location: Montana Territory
If it doesn't work with the red PC baffle, then don't use the baffle. Thats a no brainer.



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Ash wrote:
Alright you primitive screwheads, listen up. See this? This is my boomstick! It's a twelve gauge double barreled Remington, S-Mart's top-of-the- line. You can find this in the sporting goods department. That's right for about $109.95. That's right.


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