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 Post subject: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel shot?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:07 am 
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I recently bought a second hand 12 guage Laurona O/U shotgun with fixed full and half chokes. The gun is stamped '3" Magnum'.
The barrels inside are VERY clean and smooth.
What manufacturer marks/stamps should I look for to make sure the barrels can withstand the firing of steel shot.
Thanks in advance for any help given.


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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:42 am 
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You should NOT shoot steel through a full choked gun!

BobK

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:07 pm 
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This gun, although a good one, was not designed with steel flying through the chokes in mind. Buy another steel compatible gun-it's a good excuse!

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:02 pm 
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European makers who sell their guns in the domestic (Euro) market and the guns can shoot steel will have them proofed for steel. The proof mark is a fleur-de-lys and will appear in addition to the other proof marks. However, since the US does not require proofing, the manufacturer may not bother with having the proof done even tho the gun is OK with steel. The absence of the steel proof does not mean the gun cannot shoot steel.

But in all liklihood your gun is not steel-compatible, esp with full choke.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 4:17 pm 
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maybe, ask the dealer

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:02 am 
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Or ask the maker:

www.larona.com

FAX 011-34943-700616

Email laurona@laurona.com

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 5:52 am 
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I also have a Laurona marked magnum. Magnum has more to do with the 3" shell capability than steel. Going back to the manufacturer won't do much good as although the gun is marked Laurona on the outside, the barrels were made by one Spanish company, the action by a second and the stock by a third, none of which are Laurona, all of which are out of business.

Getting the gun re-proofed is the only way to know for sure. But as someone else said, unless you got to have a sxs to shoot duck with, take the money you would spend on getting the Laurona re-proofed and bored out, and instead put in towards a modern steel capable gun.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:03 am 
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sean, there are several good pumps out there that you can get into for under $400.00 that you can shoot steel through so it does not pay to mess with your O/U Just keep your O/U as is and injoy it!!
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2010 1:36 pm
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As a person new to shotguns I value every reply on every subject I post.
Sorry if my questions seem trivial to some people...but thanks to you fine people it will help me with my knowlege with regard to every aspect of shotguns.
This is a great site and thanks for every reply now and in the future.
Thanks
Sean


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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:54 pm 
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No need to apologize or feel dumb. None of us knows it all. We just like to pretend we do. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:15 pm 
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unitmaster - please explain what you mean by "re-proof for steel shot". I'm not sure about european standards - but so far as I know, SAAMI pressures are no different for steel than they are for lead. So I don't know what "re-proofing" would prove, exactly. Unless the proof house also does some sort of structural survey of bbl steel and construction etc. and can determine if the gun is able to withstand steel shot without damage to bore or bbl.

As far as I know, steel loads don't generate higher pressures than lead (I'm not implying you can substitute steel for lead in reloading - the entire shell has to be of compatible components so as not to exceed the safe limits of the gun). I believe the issue with steel is bridging of shot at the constriction points (forcing cone?, and /or choke) and scour of the bbl walls.

Steel compatible guns are designed to accomodate those issues - though I do not know what specifically is different in their designs - presumably better steel, higher strength solders or brazes between bbls and at the monoblock, chrome bores (though not all guns have this).

Not trying to be argumentative - but I am curious as to what is meant by "steel proofed" when discussing re-proofing a gun.

John

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:29 pm 
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John H,

My understanding is that barrels can be re-tested by both "test loads" and non-destructive testing (xray, etc) to certify that the barrels can take higher pressures than originally proofed for. Damascus barrels often have this in order to be able to shoot nitro loads instead of just black powder pressures. Since we are talking about an older Spanish gun, they were not always proofed for pressures of some or our modern 3" or 3 1/2 " loads; steel or not.

Plus if you are going to start grinding in your barrel's cones and chokes, it would be wise to have it re-checked afterwords.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:10 pm 
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thanks for the clarification- I wasn't sure where the re-proofing was comming in.

It seems that even if it were reproofed to "modern" levels - it would not mean it is ok for use with steel shot. That is more of a structural issue with material strengths, choke constriction, solder strength, and the like. I would not think these things would really be tested by proof loads.

I think the suggestion to check with the manufacturer would be the best- but they are going to tell you not to use steel shot. Even if you were open the full choke up to modified - you are risking the gun. If the steel bridges as it goes through the choke constriction it will stress the bbl - possibly resulting in a bulge or ring around the bbl. It may also overstress the solder that holds the bbls together and initiate a delamination of the bbl assembly.

john

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:39 am 
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I agree with John. Without the gunmarker's OK, it is just not worth it. However, it is your gun and use it as you wish.

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 Post subject: Re: How do I know if my 12 guage shotgun will fire steel sho
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:55 pm 
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A5guy wrote:
I agree with John. Without the gunmarker's OK, it is just not worth it. However, it is your gun and use it as you wish.

I agree, however if you are familiar with some of the older Spanish makers, many are long out of business. My Laurona magnum for example was actually made by 3 smaller Spanish makers of which 2 are out of business. Laurona acted as sort of a "general contractor" in the gun's production. So getting approval is not even possible. Plus the other thing to consider is that even if the barrels can take the abuse, some of the thin necked stocks may not be able to take the pounding.

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