CalendarCalendar   Photos  * FAQ
It is currently Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:13 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Baker Batavia Leader
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:44 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 12
I am hoping to get more information and get an idea of the value of this double. I have determind that it's a Folsom made gun, so that puts it's D.O.B. between 1919 & 1933. I would like to narraow that down some if possible. The serial number is 42xxF (i forgot to write it down and that's all i could remember).

Although the gun is not marked, it is a 12...the 2 3/4" i had dropped in perfectly. So, if they seat all the way without resistance, does that mean its a 2 3/4" chamber?

the barrels are 28" and measure + & - of 0.7" at the muzzle.

condition is ok. mechanically, it's sound and locks up tight and no movement when open. There is speckling over a lot of the metal (picture 2 best describes it) from minor surface rust. I wiped it down with an oil rag and it cleaned up quite a bit, but still needs a lot! The trigger bow has a lot of minor pitting and there is practically no finish left on the bottom part of the bow. the triggers themselves are pretty dirty and have a little surface rust, no pitting. there is one significant rust spot on the barrel with pitting.

Image
Image
Image
Image

The case coloring and wood are decent.

Where were the Folsom guns made?

I have an opprotunity to purchase this gun if i decide i want it (which i think i do). What modern rounds can i use, if any? Or what what would be recomended to use in it? i don't reload, so please keep that in mind. i likely wouldnt use it much, but i would like have it as an option.

Thanks for any insite!
DW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baker Batavia Leader
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:31 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2007 11:12 am
Posts: 3370
Location: WA/AK
The very last H & D Folsom advertising of the Batavia Leader, or any of their Baker guns, was 1929. In 1930 H & D Folsom sold their gun factory at Norwich, Conn.; where they made their American Gun Co., Crescent Fire Arms Co., Baker Gun Co., and hundreds of "trade brand" shotguns; to J. Stevens Arms Co. a wholly owned subsidiary of Savage Arms Corp.

I would guess with a number that low your gun would be from around 1919 to 1922, but I've never seen a published serial number list for Folsom Bakers. For a while I owned a 30-inch Batavia Leader 12-gauge, 149xxF, that had 3-inch chambers, but I doubt it left the factory that way!! I never shot a 3-inch magnum in it!! Just dropping a shell in the gun doesn't indicate chamer length, as the chamber should be the length of the fired shell, so a loaded shell is shorter than the chamber. I'd recommend using lower pressure shells from RST in the gun, just to be easy on the 80+ year old wood. I'd guess that Folsom intended their Baker 12-gauge guns for 2 3/4 inch shells, as they were the "standard" during the years Folsom made Bakers, and modern SAAMI specs for American ammunition came into effect during those years. This chamber length business becomes even more confusing because some of the old companies (Parker Bros. and A.H. Fox Gun Co. I know for sure)held their chambers 1/8 inch shorter than the intended shell, so the case mouth opened into the forcing cone a bit. They believed this cushoned the shot in the days for paper shells and fiber wads, giving somewhat better patterns.

Chamber depth is considered to be the distance between the breech end of the barrels and the joint between the chamber body itself and the forcing cone, which reduces down to bore diameter. This is loosely based on the length of the "Fired" shell. Today, theoretically when the crimp opens on the shell being fired the end would land at the junction of the chamber and cone. Prior to WW-II many companies had the practice of holding the chamber about 1/8 inch shorter than the shell for which it was intended. Fly in the ointment is nominal measurements often differ from actual ones in both chambers and shells. A very good method I have found of measuring chambers without much outlay of cash, and is quite accurate enough for virtually any situation, is a common 6" flexible machinist's scale which you likely have. Hold the barrels with muzzles toward a light source, not necessarily a concentrated one a window is great, while looking into the breech and the cone will be thrown in a shadow. May have to move the barrels around a little until it is distinct. While still looking into the chamber simply slide the scale in until you observe the end coming flush with the shadow line & mark position of breech end with your thumb. Remove and read the scale. I usually repeat this a few times to insure I am getting a consistent reading, but you will be amazed how accurate this can be done. While I own a Galazan chamber gauge, I use this more often than not. The chamber body itself has a taper of about .005" per inch. Sometimes chambers were cut with slightly worn reamers giving a slight undersize chamber. If the chamber is a bit undersize a gauge made to "industry" standards will not go in to the true depth of the chamber. A.H. Fox Gun Co. shotguns are known for having tight chambers. The machinist’s scale method can be more accurate.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baker Batavia Leader
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:32 pm 
*Proud to be a*
*Proud to be a*

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:03 pm
Posts: 3626
Location: peoples socialist republic
According to this topic, Winchester AA extra lite should be OK for trap shooting. 8000 PSI.

_________________
over the hill and picking up speed.

"I ask sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people...to disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."..
founding father George Mason.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baker Batavia Leader
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:37 pm 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 12
Any idea of it's value?

I've searched the auction sites and found several listed (only a couple sold). I found one that was in similar in every way, including condition, but it's 16 gauge. Would the gauge have a significant impact on it's value?

I have also searched the history of these shotguns as well. To say it's convoluted, is an understatement.

DW


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Baker Batavia Leader
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 9:20 am 
Utility Grade

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 8:20 am
Posts: 12
What i am trying to determine is a value. I have an idea from closed auctions of similar Bakers (Folsom 16's), but there are a few other Bakers (Folsom 12's) listed on other sites that are listed at a few hundred $$$ more than the closed auctions. Which i making me question the actual value of this particular shotgun.

i was hoping to hear from more informed folks, since i am not much of a shotgun authority.

DW


Last edited by SShooterZ on Fri Nov 26, 2010 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Deleted Spammer


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 5 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Registered users: Ariss, bigedberg, Bing [Bot], blanked, Bob_K, BobK, BuysRemington, casonet, Chris Ferres, CubaLibre, dcblvsh2, Eriehunter, etech69, FrankHKP7, gfhfmf, Google [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot], hopper810, ithacarick, J Kaf, KRIEGHOFFK80, krimmie, Macfly, mailman, Majestic-12 [Bot], myrickjim, NDube, perazzimx8l, Pock65, Road Man, SCShotgunHunter, Syreel, texasok, wkd, Yornoc3, Zeeba


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group     -  DMCA Notice