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 Post subject: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:30 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:51 am
Posts: 7
Hello.
I've been a bit fixated with this idea (combo rifles in general really) but more spacifically with what i guess would be described as the KaC Masterkey concept.

Right off the bat...let me say that I plan to take every legal step nessecary to achieve this goal, but it's the how of it all that has prompted me to seek advice. I mean no encouragement of illigality nor will I ever do somthing illegal just to make this project come into being. Still, I need to know the laws and how they apply to the various routes of aquisition detailed below.

I've already discounted trying to get a masterkey...finding one is hard enough but then one must pay for it (I've seen near 3k) on top of that you add the tax for a SBS 200$...thats out.

The option I've been most attracted to is the Remington 870 MCS. 1400$ for what amounts to 7 different shotguns out of 1 bag (shoulder stock with the 10", 14" & 18"...same with the pistol grip and then the 10" mounted) I've read that one only needs to pay the AOW tax of 5$ because the unit ships with the pistol grip attached but that seems incorrect to me, i mean, It's modular and can become a 10" barrell attached to a stock, I would think LE would insist on charging the SBS tax.

Now, though i really want the unit to mount under my ar-15 and as a full sized 18" tactical pump (2\7 in other words) it has occured to me that a cheaper route might be to just buy a Rem 870 or a mossberg 500, add a picatinny rail, cut it down (through legal channels, whatever they may be) and just have the unit as an AR-15 under mount only.

What i wonder most about this cheaper alternative is how would the customized 500 or 870 differ from the MCS? I dont like the idea of a few screws holding a picitinny rail onto the custom 500\870 bearing all the strain of a 12ga blast once the the picatinny on the shotgun is mated with the picatinny under my AR, but perhaps the Picatinny rail on the MCS is the same ...just a few screws holding it on. Would the 500 or the 870 lend itself better to customization for this purpose?

Thanks :)




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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:39 am 
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The idea you have has been floating around for a long time and I know of a few people that have played with it. I am sure there is a guy out there that has already mounted an shotgun via a rail to an AR15 but I haven't seen it personally. This guy is the closest I have seen to coming up with a working system but he hasn't finished it. http://www.modernrifle.com/forum/viewto ... 56&t=54111


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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:36 am 
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Linear wrote:
I've already discounted trying to get a masterkey...finding one is hard enough but then one must pay for it (I've seen near 3k) on top of that you add the tax for a SBS 200$...thats out.


For whatever it is worth, I checked a couple NFA dealers and they have them in the $1,800-1,900 zone. Still probably pricey compared to the custom project you have in mind, but thought I'd mention it.

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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 12:33 pm 
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The MCS kit requires an SBS stamp. Also, you can't mount an AOW shotgun to an AR because you are technically 'putting a buttstock on it'. You'd need to figure out what you want to build and submit the paperwork as an SBS, then you can legally mount it on an AR or just put a buttstock on it. I would also recommend using a Mossberg, alloy receiver and lighter barrel. Remington 'masterkey' setups are unbelievably nose-heavy.

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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:35 pm 
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A Mossberg safety would be near impossible to get at once it is clipped under the rifle. A Maverick would probably work well.

If you are worried about the rail pulling loose from the top of the reciver, you could add a bracket that runs back to where the stock would normally attach to take some of the recoil.

If you want to use it as a standalone gun, you could get one of the stock and pistol grip assemblies that spike sells for their havoc launcher.

What kind of RIS are you using on the rifle?


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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 6:49 pm 
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Thankyou for the responses, I appreciate both the info and the opinions. (and the link)

I admit that it's been 2 or 3 years since i did any serious looking for the masterkey...i seem to recall some expired auctions in the 1700-1900 range that i found at the time but...then as now, thats a bit out of my price range for somthing that, though fun...is going to end up pretty heavy in the end (est 13-14 #'s) I figure if I use the MCS I get 7 weapons for 1600, if I just go for a custom 870\500 (or perhaps some other brand\model) I might be able to get just a AR mounted shotgun for around 1k (thats guessing 500 for the gun and 300 for the gunsmithing +sbs tax but I honestly have no idea how much the smithing might cost)

I get the sense that modifing a 500 or 870 would be a viable and possibly cheaper option to the mcs. It would help if i owned them both and could just break them down and compare...it might be a good idea just to buy one of each, hehe, would still cost less than the MCS.

Still, I dont want to completely give up on the MCS. If anyone has 1st hand expierance with it I want to hear from you, even if its just having held one. Most of all I'de like to hear about the rail (is it a welded part of the gun or just screwed on?) and about the stock\pistol grip connector area (from what I can see, the mcs has a few different things in this area that normal 870 pumps dont have and might help to make a solid connection to the AR)

I will look into the Maverik, I'm not tied to the 870 or the 500, if it's possible to maintian the quality that comes with an 870 or 500 but lose weight I'm open to any viable alternative.

Thanks again.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:51 am
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TempestV wrote:
A Mossberg safety would be near impossible to get at once it is clipped under the rifle. A Maverick would probably work well.

If you are worried about the rail pulling loose from the top of the reciver, you could add a bracket that runs back to where the stock would normally attach to take some of the recoil.

If you want to use it as a standalone gun, you could get one of the stock and pistol grip assemblies that spike sells for their havoc launcher.

What kind of RIS are you using on the rifle?


It's an AR-57 on a Bartlett Arms billet lower...very solid rails since they, along with most of the rest of the upper, are one piece of metal. the rail goes all the way to the reciever but the last 1" is a solid rail with no teeth, then the little gap that all AR's have where the forward pin bluges out a bit.


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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 9:03 am 
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Years back, mid-80's, there were companies that were selling kits to mount shotguns under AR's. I remember seeing ad's for them in magazines. I suspect they were trying to capitalize on the Predator movie. Somebody out here has an old issue of SWAT, Soldier of Fortune, Gung-Ho!, ect with this ad in it......


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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:34 pm 
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zombie wrote:
Years back, mid-80's, there were companies that were selling kits to mount shotguns under AR's. I remember seeing ad's for them in magazines. I suspect they were trying to capitalize on the Predator movie. Somebody out here has an old issue of SWAT, Soldier of Fortune, Gung-Ho!, ect with this ad in it......



I wanted one back then until I fondled one at a gun show. Even empty the overall weight was enormous and OAL made it unwieldy. A 20inch A2 loaded with 30rds of 5.56 and a 870 hanging out in front of the magwell loaded with 5 rds of 00buck would not be fun for long.

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Last edited by Banshee on Fri Dec 10, 2010 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:11 pm 
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I handled one also. Seriously front heavy but it would make a good boat anchor in a pinch.

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 Post subject: Re: Pump 12ga mounted under an AR15
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:41 pm 
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i am one of the lucky ones that bought at the time was i believe was called a northstar arsenal kit about 15 years ago or longer it attached my mossberg 500 to my colt sporter 2 ar 15 exactly like the one in predator i thought of rambo too. i have fired the weapon many times and it has awesome fire power. the shotgun holds 6 rounds stock with the possability of ten rounds with a longer chamber and the ar 15 can take a 100 rd clip though you would lose the grip of the shotgun cause the 30 round clip works as the pistol grip for the shotgun. ive had the gun in storage up till last month. Its now here at my house with the original clips that i bought. i am originaly from california and bought it in case of a gang trying to get into my home surprise surprise surprise, So for all of you skeptics IT DOES WORK WELL i can send anyone pics so they can see it for themselves or want to try and duplicate it for less then a masterkey. Thanks and good hunting..... 8)




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