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 Post subject: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:35 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
I have become interested in the old High Standard shotguns.
I owned one, a Sears Ted Williams model 21 once
upon a time, and I sold it to get a Winchester, because all
the people in the know said the Winchesters were better.
So I got rid of this old High standard pump gun, which was
probably about the last model High standard made. It
had dual action bars, as opposed to one on the all the
earlier models. I really like that gun, and of course you
guessed it, the Winchester Model 12 that replaced it,
I couldn't stand. It got a new home fast.

So anyway I have been thinking more about these old guns
and I have some questions on both the pumps and autos.

questions:
(1) Can you tell me what models had removeable barrels
if any?

(2) Anything you can tell me about them that you think is
interesting would also entertain me, so what do you know
about them that was interesting?

(3) Any good web sites for information on them.



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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:47 pm 
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Location: Evangeline, Louisiana
They made some of the best pumps and worst semi autos ever.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:34 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
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Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
I was aware that they made the first gas operated auto, but I never
knew it was one of the worst. What kind of problems did it have?
Reliability of cycling or parts breakage or what. I seem to remember
some gun writer really giving some praise to the autos.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 10:05 pm 
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Location: Plainfield, IL
I had a 20 gauge Supermatic Trophy for many years. It was my first new 20 gauge autoloader, as a matter of fact.

It was a great fitting, fine handling gun. It was also a single shot more often than not.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 1:23 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 3:44 am
Posts: 1600
I have an old 20 ga. High Standard pump with a plain barrel and a single action bar. I picked it up at a gun show years ago for cheap. The barrel is fixed (screwed into the receiver). It is a hoot to take to the skeet range. An internet search will show plenty of sources for parts and manuals. IMHO one of the guilty pleasures of the shotgun world.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:54 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:02 pm
Posts: 609
Location: Houston, Texas
I have been working with an old JC Higgins Model 60 autoloader that I picked up this year. So far it has functioned perfectly. The design is interesting, more complicated that newer gas guns. I checked Numrich and found that most parts are still available. It is kind of clunky in the handling department, the forearm is larger than most guns and the weight bias is too far forward for me.

I have read that the pumps were a copy of the Remington 31 actions, and most people that have had them really like them. The deluxe versions of the Model 20/21 may be some of the best values out there. Don't know that I would trade a Model 12 for one, but to each his own.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 2:56 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:02 pm
Posts: 609
Location: Houston, Texas
Sorry, forgot to add that even into the 70's High Standard pumps and autos had barrels that screwed into the receivers.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:01 am 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
One thing I have noticed is that a lot of these guns have a
sleek looking choke like a poly-choke. Also seen quite a
few with a device similar to Cutts compensator, with individual
tubes that screw in, but with completely different dimensions
of the tubes. These adjustable/changeable chokes must
have been more popular on these guns because of the fact
that the barrels were not interchangeable, thus not allowing
to change chokes by switching barrels. They were made in
the days before screw in tubes became the common solution.
One good thing about this would be the fact that you probably
get better accuracy out of a slug gun with these fixed barrels,
The old model 21 Ted Williams I owned had that sleek poly
type choke, and it was hard to beat for selecting what you
wanted to do.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Some interesting information I turned up while surfing the net.
Quote:
High Standard began making shotguns for Sears Roebuck in the
late 1940s. In 1960, High Standard began marketing shotguns
under their own name and the approximately 200 models
followed.


Quote:
Early models were made by High Standard. Later models were
actually made by subcontractors. The later models were not
considered as good quality wise. Subcontractors included
third party manufacturers, both domestic (like Savage or Stevens)
or foreign, on license.
Example of subcontracted gun was the model The K-120
introduced in 1969 was the same shotgun as the K-1200
which was made by High Standard.

In 1973, High Standard introduced their new "Trophy Line" of
shotguns. The 12 gauge pumps in the Trophy line were the
guns which had interchangeable barrels. These must have
all been subcontracted according to the above paragraph.


Quote:

Beginning about 1958, many of the shotguns had a two letter date code.
Serial numbers began appearing on the High Standard shotguns during
mid to late 1967.


Quote:
The choke markings used by High Standard are: * Full, ** Modified, ***
Improved Cylinder, and **** Skeet Bore. Cylinder Bore has no mark.



Some links for the above quotes:
http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/High_Sta ... gun_Series

Blue Book of gun values (S P Fjestad)

manuals:
http://www.histandard.info/manuals/hpashotguns/



..

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:51 pm 
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I love those old J C Higgins, Hi-Standard, pump guns. They are based on the old Remington Model 31 action and are usually very smooth. They get no respect. You can sometimes find nice ones at gun shows for less than $200. One of the best "secrets" out there. One caution though, the ones with the tube or Cutts Compensator type device don't handle plastic wads so well. Sometimes the petals expand before they get to the tube and get stripped off. I doubt its a safety issue but it can be disconcerting.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:32 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 9:42 pm
Posts: 489
Location: Colorado and Kansas
Thanks for this thread, gentlemen. The High Standard factory was in my home town, and I rode by it twice a day to & from school when I was very young. I only learned what they produced a few years ago; had no idea they made guns. Winchester was the big deal in guns in our area, and Marlin/Mossberg/Colt and others were nearby.

Some day I'll pick up a High Standard pump, for sentimentality if nothing else. Thanks again!


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 3:08 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:59 am
Posts: 982
Location: SMITHFIELD, PA
I own a High Standard Model K121 Flte King Deluxe 12ga 28" barrel Mod choke. A very well made,smooth action pump shotgun that gets used each season in Pa. I have never had any problems with the gun. I will say it's pumping action it just as smooth as my 1949 Remington Model 31 16ga.


A500R


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 2:37 pm 
Tournament Grade

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 7:26 pm
Posts: 173
From your post I can tell you that you already know more than I do about High Standard shotguns. But I would like to chime in and say I had a Flite King riot model that was bought back in the early 70's and it was a great slug gun compared to what was available in that day.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 4:48 pm 
Crown Grade

Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
These short High Standards were used by a lot of law enforcement
agencies, and I imagine they made a very good slug gun, because
they made them cylinder bore, and also the barrel had no "slop" in
it, being securely fastened into the receiver, this had to be helpful
to accuracy. One of the links I looked at showed a lot of movies
that these short High Standard pumps were used in. One of them
was the original "The Get Away" with Steve McQueen. That was
a High Standard gun. One advantage of these may have been
the shell capacity. The magazine in a lot of HS pumps held 5 rounds
instead of the standard 4 in others.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 3:14 pm
Posts: 142
I have Higgins/ Hi Standard Model 20, and it is tough as nails. the "poly-choke" looking thing is actually a Lyman Power Pack. The tubes are pretty expensive if you can find them. I have a modified in mine, but would like to have a spreader one day. What has been said about plastic wads is true.....when shooting mine a lot small pieces of plastic strip off in the choke assembly. I have to pull them pout occasionally. It do not think it would be a safety issue unless allowed to build up excessively. I mostly use the gun for quail and rabbits since it has a short barrel and quick and reliable action.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 09, 2007 5:35 pm
Posts: 2407
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
I fought off the urge to buy one of these old guns for quite
awhile now, but today I finally caved in. I really liked that old
Ted Williams model 21. Mine was a 20 gauge. I am not a big
20 gauge fan now, since you can get lots of wads for 12s that
load down to 7/8 ounce, so I was more interested in getting
one of these in a 12. The problem is that they made hardly
any of these guns in 12 gauge. For some reason they were
about as common as chicken teeth. I did happen onto one
on gunbroker that was a 12 gauge clone of that 20 gauge I
had. I don't believe they made very many of these 12s,
but here was one looking at me from my computer, and
I caved in and pulled the trigger. Here is the auction site
showing the gun. As you can see it looks pretty much
unused, and original, scroll down and look at the pictures:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =211216595


Looks like a pretty good condition gun for something made about
1961 doesn't it? That is probably pretty close to the year of
manufacture.

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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:07 pm 
Field Grade

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:10 pm
Posts: 21
I have a 1962 JC Higgins model 20 that I bought for $50 from a friend couple years ago. it is very light and well balanced, lightning quick action, to the point of border line loose. I use it for trap shooting. my tacti-cool Mossberg 500 setup looks huge and heavy next to it


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:35 am 
Field Grade

Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2010 3:52 pm
Posts: 26
sneem wrote:
I love those old J C Higgins, Hi-Standard, pump guns. They are based on the old Remington Model 31 action and are usually very smooth.


Actually, the JC Higgins Model 20 and its progeny (High Standard 200, Flite-King, etc.) were not based on the Remington 31. Take a look at this post.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:33 pm 
Limited Edition

Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2006 6:14 pm
Posts: 303
You all are killing me. I know where there is a minty 28 gauge Flite King.


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 Post subject: Re: High Standard Shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:46 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 6:59 am
Posts: 982
Location: SMITHFIELD, PA
kentucky_smith wrote:
You all are killing me. I know where there is a minty 28 gauge Flite King.



If I were you I would run very fast & get that gun before someone else gets that minty 28ga Flite King. I will tell you what my 12ga Flite King Deluxe will do, I can stand the gun on it's recoil pad press the action release & the action will fall open by it's self. Smooth as butter.


A500R




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