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 Post subject: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:54 pm 
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... a previously undocumented form of self-flaggelation ?

I was "gifted" with almost 800 Federal paper shells in very good shape. I think they were once fired, but the previous owner is long since gone. There slips of paper in each bag that said "new" so, I am assuming that they were once fired.

I have horsed around with loading these with varying results. They all go BANG, but at the end of the day, some loads have taken much more work than others. Many of them had horrible looking crimps.

The last combo that came out beautifully was started on my Mec Jr, but finished on my 9000. I loaded Hodgdon's recipe of approximately 20 grains of Clays, a Federal 209A primer, a Federal 12SO wad, and one ounce of shot. For that load, it was the CB clone of the 12SO, but I digress.

When running these through the Jr, the loads fit well, but the crimps were messy. For kicks, I took the loaded shell to my 9000, and ran it through the final crimp and taper die, and they crimps were BEAUTIFUL. This convinced me I needed to give it a go on my 9000.

Problem #1: the primer drop tube sometimes catches on the edge of the shell. Fiddle with that ...
Problem #2: the XXL Orange, while being a 12S0 clone, doesnt fit the same in this combo. The wad is too tall and the crimps wont close completely, leaving a dome at best.
Problem #3: The crimps are hit and miss. Some are great, some are hideous. Precrimp is the smooth cone, and set to primer sized ...

I dont get it folks. I just dont get it. What am I doing wrong?

Id like to reload these. They are kinda groovy. I just dont like the reloading process taking 1.5 to 2x longer with mixed results.


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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Don't the paper hulls use the wads that fit plastic hulls for a better fit? I know that a lot of them are shown in recipes. Are you using the smooth cone precrimper?

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:39 pm 
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You are using a 6-point crimp rather than an 8-point crimp?

Another tip someone gave me is put the hulls in the oven before you load them. Set your over low 150-200F and bake them for an hour or two. Prop the door open a bit to help drive the moisture out of them. It really helps the entire loading process especially the final crimp.

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:22 pm 
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I have reloaded maybe 2,000 of that exact load, it is a very nice load that fits well in that hull.

Go back to the CB clone of the 12S0 or use the original Federal 12S0 wad. I use CB2100-12.

Becareful about putting these hulls in the oven. They are waxed and if you aren't careful you will have the wax running over the brass head.

I reload Winchester AA(old style), Federal Gold Medal and Federal Papers on a 9000, the only change to the machine that I make is switching the 8 point crimp starter to the paper crimp starter.

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:23 am 
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I bought a couple hundred just for a change of pace, found a recipe that would use the components I have on hand and loaded them up w/ no problems. I wasn't aware a different crimp starter would be beneficial but found my results good enough for the couple uses they will get. Good luck getting yours sorted out.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=239450

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Last edited by steveziv on Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:04 pm 
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Curly-Nohair wrote:
Don't the paper hulls use the wads that fit plastic hulls for a better fit? I know that a lot of them are shown in recipes. Are you using the smooth cone precrimper?


Curly: I am using the smooth cone pre-crimp. Using the 6 point (or even the 8 point) makes a mess in my most humble opinion.

I started off using the CB 12SO clone, which was pretty decent, then the XXL Orange, which sucked. I went back to the 12SO clone after 15 of the oranges, and they were okayish.

Since posting this yesterday, I found the best handling load yet. 21ish grains of International, the CB 12C1 ballistic clone (one piece, not two piece) with an ounce of shot. Everything fits beautifully. I have to take a few to the patterning board to see how they splatter :)

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:05 pm 
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mcbirch wrote:
You are using a 6-point crimp rather than an 8-point crimp?

Another tip someone gave me is put the hulls in the oven before you load them. Set your over low 150-200F and bake them for an hour or two.
...


Smooth cone pre-crimp for the paper shells. It seems to make the best final results over the 6 point or the 8 point, which I find makes a mess of things. I found a better fitting combo that still needs to be pattern tested ... see above!


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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:07 pm 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
I have reloaded maybe 2,000 of that exact load, it is a very nice load that fits well in that hull.

Go back to the CB clone of the 12S0 or use the original Federal 12S0 wad. I use CB2100-12.
...


Huh, very interesting. I dont understand why my loads yesterday were hit and miss at best when I went back to the 12SO clone.

I found a better fitting combo... see above!

Thank you!


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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 12:09 pm 
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steveziv wrote:
I bought a couple hundred just for a change of pace, found a recipe that would use the components I have on hand and loaded them up w/ no problems. I wasn't aware a different crimp starter would be beneficial but found my results good enough for the couple used they will get.
...


Mec makes a smooth cone crimp starter for the paper hulls. It helps. I found a new combo that fits very nicely. See above!


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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:13 pm 
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In the old days we used to have a special board for reconditioning the paper hulls. I had a board with about 50 nails pounded in it that were long enough so that when you sat a hull over the nail the crimp end did not touch the board. I don't recall just this second how hot I ran the oven, but it wasn't all that hot. I'd sit the board with the hulls on it in the oven and keep an eye on them. Once there was just a little bit of wax migration from the hull into the crimp fold section take them out. The extra wax being drawn down to the crimp end helped the crimps exponential.

I never did this, but I had friends who made similar tools that were made from dowel sticks that were just the correct size to fit into the hull holding the weak crimp tightly open against the dowel. Then into the oven again waiting untill the wax had migrated down into the crimp portion of the hull. That was supposed to help get another load or two out of the hulls. That was way too much bother for me, I just used different hulls.

BP

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:28 pm 
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Burnt Powder wrote:
In the old days we used to have a special board for reconditioning the paper hulls. I had a board with about 50 nails pounded in it that were long enough so that when you sat a hull over the nail the crimp end did not touch the board. I don't recall just this second how hot I ran the oven, but it wasn't all that hot. I'd sit the board with the hulls on it in the oven and keep an eye on them. Once there was just a little bit of wax migration from the hull into the crimp fold section take them out. The extra wax being drawn down to the crimp end helped the crimps exponential.

I never did this, but I had friends who made similar tools that were made from dowel sticks that were just the correct size to fit into the hull holding the weak crimp tightly open against the dowel. Then into the oven again waiting untill the wax had migrated down into the crimp portion of the hull. That was supposed to help get another load or two out of the hulls. That was way too much bother for me, I just used different hulls.

BP


Ill bet that made the Pillbury dough boy a tick nervous....

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:20 pm 
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To recondition 12 ga. paper hulls, get a CO2 cartridge like the kind used in BB guns. This will fit perfectly in the mouth of the hull and so stick it in about an inch or so. Next use a hair drier or heat gun and warm the CO2 cartridge up until it will melt wax. I then take a piece of bee's wax and "wipe" the junction where the two meet like I was solding copper pipe. Let it cool and you're good to go! Best Wishes, Bud

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:58 pm 
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Another way, a Forster Shotshell Conditioner, I bought it on E-bay I think it was $20.00. It has a rheostat, so you can use it for paper or plastic hulls. No I don't use it on plastic hulls if they are messed up out they go. I don't shoot a lot of papers, but they are fun.

Image

Image

Before,

Image

After, It takes about 5 seconds per hull, if you turn it up hotter, it goes a little faster but you also lose wax, which isn't good.

Image


Completely reloaded, crimps are about 1/16" deep, I use a smooth cone crimp starter, on my 9000.

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:28 am 
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Back in the day, i used a device similar to dogchaser. It was near full length though and you could rub fresh paraffin over the exterior of the hull. We'd do this every few firings. Used and old Texan press with a sharp pre-crimper (6 pt), similar to the ones for starting new plastic hulls. Man....that was like 35 years ago.

I don't recall it being too too hot, but then I was just dad's cheap 12 year old labor doing what I was taught.


Last edited by Jager1 on Sun Jan 16, 2011 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:05 am 
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Jager 1,

A friend of mine has one of those, I used to borrow his before I found this one. He told me that he bought his in the 1950's. That thing would get pretty hot as I remember and you were taking hulls off as fast as you put the hulls on. This one is a little more user friendly, but I liked the full length melting treatment better.

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:40 pm 
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kosmo wrote:
mcbirch wrote:
You are using a 6-point crimp rather than an 8-point crimp?

Another tip someone gave me is put the hulls in the oven before you load them. Set your over low 150-200F and bake them for an hour or two.
...


Smooth cone pre-crimp for the paper shells. It seems to make the best final results over the 6 point or the 8 point, which I find makes a mess of things. I found a better fitting combo that still needs to be pattern tested ... see above!


I have an old mec 600jr with a metal 6 point crimp starter. Its really smooth from use and I found that taking a rag impregnated with WD-40 and occasionally wiping out the pre-crimper and making sure the 6 point insert was free to rotate in its housing made for some very nice crimps. How does a cone pre-crimp start the folds? Never used one before.

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:07 pm 
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mcbirch,

You got me, probably memory leftover from the factory crimp. Even remelting the wax doesn't stop the smooth cone from working.

It works, I never explored why and I ain't gonna!! :lol: 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:01 pm 
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I've found that using a wad for 1 1/8 oz. works best for 1 oz. in these hulls, especially with a fluffy powder like clays/claydot. I've used 12S3's for 1 oz, and 12SO for 7/8. DR XL-1's also work nicely with 1 oz in Fed. papers.


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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:19 pm 
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Hi:

Back in the "Dark Ages" when all we had was paper shells to reload one trick that worked very well to make sure that the crimps were good was this. I learned to dip the crimp area of the shell into a liquid floor/furniture wax. The crimps lasted forever, until the case burned through just above the brass part of the shell.

Try it! It still may work.

Franchi


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 Post subject: Re: Is reloading Federal Paper hulls ...
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:58 am 
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Ah, memories....
I'd throw them in a clay target box and put them in the trunk for a few days. On a sunny day, that trunk get hot enough to make the sides of them paper shells hard as rocks.

The 6 point MEC starter worked fine for me.

When I see Federal papers at the range, I pick them up. I've probably got 100-200. When I get enough to make it worth while, I'll buy a bag of wads and load them all up. I do miss that particular smell they gave when fired.

I also recall you only get 1-2 reloads before they're ready for the trash.

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