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 Post subject: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 11:51 pm 
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Do you guys think we need this many chokes tubes CYL SK IC LM M IM LF F XF? I think for the shooting I do SK, LM and IM would suit me 99% of the time. How about the old british way, 4 chokes cover it all, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full. Heres more to think about If .010 is IC and .020 is mod and .025 is imp mod then why is .035 full, there is only .005 between mod and IM and .010 between the rest. And some books I read says .010, .020, .030, and .040 is IC MOD IM and full. Which is right? Is the 10 ,20, 30, 40, the way guns were choked when most ammo had a fiber wad or what? If 35 thousandths is really full wouldnt it be better to have choke intrevals in 9 thousandths? .009=IC/quarter, for close shots and steel loads, .018=MOD/half, mid range and long range with steel loads, .027=IM/three quarter, long range with lead and steel goose loads and .036=full, reach out and touch them with lead loads crow, late season phesants. Kinda a cross between both choking measuring systems. I think 4 chokes would cover everything I would need. Or am I just crazy? Just thinking out loud.

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Last edited by T-roy 120 on Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:00 am 
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Location: E. Rochester NY
Okay, you about covered the 12 ga. Now do the same for the 10, 16, 20, 24, 28, and .410.
(Oh, and don't forget that the .410 is "patterned" at 25 yards.) :roll:

In the recent past and fixed chokes, most people got along with ONE choke if they owned a single, bolt, lever, pump, or auto. They had two chokes if they had a double. Life was simple, it worked, and they got along with it.

BobK

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:36 am 
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I know many SC's shooers who use a close , medium and far system ( I do , too).

skeet, LM and IM is a good one. For a 2 barreled gun, 2 of each.

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:39 am 
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The more I compare the patterns of my different fixed choke and choke tube guns the more I come to believe that the differences in chokes are pretty insignificant in the field unless it's a big jump. What I mean is the difference between cylinder and modified is useful or say improved cylinder and full. Switching from cylinder to improved cylinder choke would make some difference I suppose, but not very much. For example I have a side-by-side 28 gauge that's choked cylinder and improved cylinder. I can do all the pellet counts I want and compare percentages till the cows come home but when you stand back and look at the actual patterns on a sheet of paper side to side, the difference is pretty trivial.


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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:52 am 
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Well three pellets that break a target and two that don't is a pretty trivial difference also...Pheasants dead in the air, others floppin on the ground still others runnin lke little deer can all be diferences of only one or two pellets also......
As to Cyl, Skt, IC, Lt Mod, Mod, I/Mod, Lt Full, Full, X/Full.....what are youse guys proposing? that the designations be outlawed?....manufacturing of those offensive names be forbidden?...standardization of dimentions?...010" is I/C while .009" or .013" isn't?......stop using the dumb names....measure the constrictions....measure the bores....find out what really happens to your patterns....what amount of constriction really gives you the pattern you want....Yeah count the pellets in the payload, then count the holes, then figgure the percentages......
or don't....and do what you will....
but to just declare/imply that all these chokes are not needed is silly....everyone must decide for themselves and not look for justification on a chat forum....advice yeah sure...but only as a starting point.....
if ya don't want to test then decide by reading tea leaves or reading the lumps on your head, chicken entrails...anyway you want...me, I'll count the payload and count the holes...and note the difference between the patterns thrown by .014" and .018" constrictions with the same and different loads....funny thing both those chokes say Mod on em....Art

P.S. Anybody that can afford multiple guns, quite often in the $2000. range can afford a snap guage and micrometer from Granger....IMO

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:34 am 
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I'm for the easy life, a fixed choke gun with IM in both barrels. It patterns very nicely and breaks clays at all distances,as long as I do my bit.
No worrying what choke to use or did I use the right chokes.

Vic

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:38 am 
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http://www.hallowellco.com/choke_chart.htm


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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:10 pm 
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lizardbreath wrote:
Well three pellets that break a target and two that don't is a pretty trivial difference also...Pheasants dead in the air, others floppin on the ground still others runnin lke little deer can all be diferences of only one or two pellets also......
As to Cyl, Skt, IC, Lt Mod, Mod, I/Mod, Lt Full, Full, X/Full.....what are youse guys proposing? that the designations be outlawed?....manufacturing of those offensive names be forbidden?...standardization of dimentions?...010" is I/C while .009" or .013" isn't?......stop using the dumb names....measure the constrictions....measure the bores....find out what really happens to your patterns....what amount of constriction really gives you the pattern you want....Yeah count the pellets in the payload, then count the holes, then figgure the percentages......
or don't....and do what you will....
but to just declare/imply that all these chokes are not needed is silly....everyone must decide for themselves and not look for justification on a chat forum....advice yeah sure...but only as a starting point.....
if ya don't want to test then decide by reading tea leaves or reading the lumps on your head, chicken entrails...anyway you want...me, I'll count the payload and count the holes...and note the difference between the patterns thrown by .014" and .018" constrictions with the same and different loads....funny thing both those chokes say Mod on em....Art

P.S. Anybody that can afford multiple guns, quite often in the $2000. range can afford a snap guage and micrometer from Granger....IMO


Just having a decussion. Not implying anything.
Go take a nap, your cranky.

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For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have clearly been seen, being understood from what has been made , so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:20
Design demands a designer.


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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:36 pm 
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:lol: :lol: :lol: You're right.....I am.....gonna go nap......Art

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:15 pm 
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T-roy 120
I like so many others have done my part to make the choke manufacturers prosperous.
At this point I never change chokes.
The choke that you have the most confidence in is the best choke for you.
I prefer Mod or IMod because the breaks are so much more pleasing.
Hope this helps;
Chuck

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:34 am
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Location: Paxton, NE.
I also have more tubes than I need but they are like Forest Gump's chocolates, you don't know what you have until you try them. For pheasants I have always liked Mod. in a 12 gauge but in my 20, I have more confidence in a Full choke. Don't ask why because I can't answer that one.
Rex


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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:55 am 
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My take of the evolution of chokes.

When wads were fiber and there was no shot cup choke was defined by the percentage of shot that was placed in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. It so happened that .010 inch constriction difference produce close to the percentages for IC, Mod, IM and Full.

The Skeet shooters found that IC was a little too tight and Cylinder often gave a donut pattern. So .005 constriction emerges as the skeet choke.

Then comes the development of the plastic wad with shot cup. Full choke .040 constriction now puts more pellets than the 70% that a Full choke was suppose to into a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. Plus the development of choke tubes, it seems logical to define the constrictions in .005 inch constrictions. Since when Sporting Clays takes off in the U.S. many feel that IC .010 is too open and Mod .020 is too tight. So .015 is invented and toted as the best thing since sliced bread. Then changing IM from .030 to .025, making .030 Light Full, Full .035 and .040 X-Full.

I feel that choke should be defined by the constriction, the .005 increments is fine as the U.S. system were Sk .005, IC .010, LtMod .015 etc. Forget about the percentage of shot in a 30 inch circle at 40 yards. Because of the plastic wads with shot-cups/ammo manufacturing and the advancements in choke and barrel manufacturing, each shooter needs to find out what kind of patterns the ammo and chokes that they are using will produce.

Of course the Europeans can keep there metric system of 1 thru 10 or higher. FYI 1 translates to about .004 inch so that would be about a U.S. Skeet, 2 is .008 inch, etc. to 10 being .040.

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:54 am 
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Location: E. Rochester NY
Boy, THERE'S an "old wives' tale that goes back to black powder days! "Donut holes" from a Cylinder bore!!

Funny, but with modern guns and with modern barrels (and cylinder choke tubes, too!) I have never seen one, and I have shot a lot of patterns. In fact, I shoot a lot of cylinder barrels (or tubes) for skeet, as it gives super patterns at 20 yards (and that is the "optimum" skeet distance!)

BobK

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Last edited by BobK on Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 3:55 pm 
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Lots of good info. I have 1 more question. I have patterned many guns but have never been a pellet counter much, as I would shoot at paper and take a cut out of a mallard or dove or what ever and cheak for pattern density and holes a bird could fly through. Now to the question. With a 20 ga. being 4 thousandths constriction between choke designations and 12 ga being 5 thousandths does a backbored gun need a bit more choke to get the same pattern %s as a standard bored gun like 40 for full choke as apposed to 35? Just wondering.

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 3:40 pm 
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This almost sounds like magnumitis except in chokes. Who cares what someone else uses or how many choke tubes they have?


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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:40 pm 
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I agree that 4 chokes is more than enough. In fact, I would suggest that three is plenty; Skeet, Mod and Full.

Oh yeah, check your numbers. I think you have an extra 0 in your constrictions.

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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:48 am 
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yes to many zeros.

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For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have clearly been seen, being understood from what has been made , so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:20
Design demands a designer.


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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:00 am 
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wadd46 wrote:
This almost sounds like magnumitis except in chokes. Who cares what someone else uses or how many choke tubes they have?

If ya dont like it dont post no ones feeling will be hurt if you dont. Whats up with all the negative crap? Just having a chat. If you cant say something of worth keep your pie hole shut.

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For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities-his eternal power and divine nature-have clearly been seen, being understood from what has been made , so that men are without excuse. Romans 1:20
Design demands a designer.


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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 12:35 pm 
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I think chokes are highly over-rated, period. Yes, you can pattern and select the right loads, etc. for your specific gun. That's not a bad thing to do but none of this will do much for you if you can't hit a cow in the butt with a snow shovel. I typically use an O/U or SxS. One of my 20 gauges is IC and Mod. The other is IC and Full. Both guns have mesmerized me on everything from ducks to quail - when the guy behind it is "on". Again, knowing what works in your gun is utile for sure, but it won't make a bad shooter into a consistent hitter. Now if you're a competitive shooter, you need every edge you can get both hardware-wise and phsycologically - granted.
As I say, I've shot wood ducks while hunting river bottoms to Huns on the prairies. Personally, I wouldn't buy a double gun with screw-in chokes. As for semis or pumps, well.....maybe. I'm more likely to buy a dedicated barrel with whatever choke was appropriate.
I've seen more damage done from a poor choice in shells than I have as a result of choke. For example, at a local hunt club I witnessed more lost birds or cripples as a result of shooting 7 1/2 on chukars as apposed to 6s. You simply would not believe how many times a chukar would take those 7 1/2s, fly clear across a field or two only to be found later (thanks to the dogs) lying dead or almost dead!
On a list of priorities such as fit, barrel length, single versus double trigger, weight, shot size, etc., I'd rank chokes VERY near the bottom, marginally above beads - just my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: CHOKE MEASUREMENTS
PostPosted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:13 pm 
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I started shotgunning in the early '50s. Most single barreled guns were full choked with IC for upland and Skeet for that venue. How did we ever hit anything? It is a wonder that we ever got a quail or phesant or a trraight 25 at trap or skeet !

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