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 Post subject: Wm Moore & Co 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:14 pm
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I have an old Side by Side 12 gauge shotgun, that I got from my father this summer. I'm only 15 right now so I'm a little limited on my knowledge on antique guns and terms, so please bear with me. I am currently restoring it because it was in pretty rough shape and has already been repaired once in its life. I was wondering if I would be able to learn more about the gun and about the company it was made by.

On the side plate of the hammers shows the name "Wm.Moore & Co". In the middle of the two barrels reads "Fine Laminated Steel". The Barrel has proof marks on the bottom (both barrels, (from Left To right) "T.B & S", "B" (inside of a sideway's Square), letters "BP" under a crown, crossed halberds with a V under and a Crown on top, "13", crossed halberds with a crown on top ("B" on left, "P" on bottom, "C" on right), "6","4","3","1". In the middle of the two barrels, "W.C" reading upside down from other proof marks, and "17". On the inside of the Hammer plates (top to bottom), "ONT PATENT", "STANTON & Co, "B 39824" (left hammer), "B 39823" (right hammer). On the breech or action, the same crossed halberds crown on top with V on bottom, and "6", "4", "3", "1". on back of breech where stock meets in has small "LK", in odd position. Looking down in form top of breech where the barrels hooks into it, there is a small "8". On the back of the trigger plate "B", also been fixed with copper. On the metal of the Forearm "8". There are other places with "B" and "8". break action using a side lever coming up from the bottom wrapping to the left side. The hammers also have "8" on inside.

If you know anything about the company, proof marks, or others please help me figure out more about my gun. Or if you know of any books or websites I could look at, it would be very grateful.

Thanks so much! :s




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 Post subject: Re: Wm Moore & Co 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:18 pm
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Check on the Internet, Birmingham proof marks.


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 Post subject: Re: Wm Moore & Co 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:14 pm
Posts: 3
I have some limited knowledge on the proof marks, because i have a book for them, but only a couple are actually in the book. I'm more interested in trying to discover where it was made , when it was made, and how it was made. and about the company. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Wm Moore & Co 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:47 pm
Posts: 395
William Moore was probably born in 1787. In 1808 he was recorded as being in business at 118 Whitechapel. He was also recorded as being a stocker for Joseph Manton, probably from 1809 to 1820. It is possible that Charles Moore of the firm of that name was his son.

From 1818 to 1853 William Moore lived at Colchester Road, Edgeware. In 1820 he established his own business at that address, but by 1828 his trade had increased to the point where he required larger premises so he opened a shop at 78 Edgeware Road.

In 1829 he opened a stock making business at Court, 4 Whittall Street, Birmingham. This may also have been a purchasing office and finishing workshop.

In 1835 a percussion lock developed by Moore was rejected by the Board of Ordnance.

In 1836 William Moore was appointed Gunmaker-in-Ordinary to King William IV, and in that year the name of the firm changed to William Moore & Co.

In 1837 or 1838 the firm were appointed gunmakers to Prince Albert.

Also in 1837 the business at Court, 4 Whittall Street moved to 35 Loveday Street, it was recorded up to 1845.

In 1838 William Moore and William Harris became partners in the firm of Moore & Harris, also at 35 Loveday Street, William Harris also traded from these premises in his own name (it is likely that William Harris was related to Alfred Harris who traded as a gun barrel maker in Birmingham - see Joseph Harris of Lionel Street).

In 1840 the partnership was recorded at 36 Loveday Street trading as gun and pistol makers; at least some of the guns sold were marked Moore & Harris, London, the partnership probably used William Moore's address. The firm appears to have supplied the trade as well as William Moore in London, some of the guns sold were marked "London" and were proved in London; the partnership also developed an export trade to the USA.

From 1840 to 1845 William Moore also traded in his own name as a gunsmith from 35 Loveday Street (the terms "gunsmith" and "gun maker" were interchangeable at that time), Harris also ceased trading in his own name in 1845.

In 1847 William Moore and William Parker Grey, who had been Clerk and then Manager for Joseph Manton, went into partnership in London at 78 Edgeware Road, they operated as Wm Moore & Grey but Wm Moore also continued to trade as Wm Moore & Co, presumably in respect of one or two aspects of his business.

In 1852 William Moore and William Harris patented a percussion revolver which was produced in limited quantities (Patent No. 69).

In 1854 William Moore and William Grey started to trade as William Moore & Grey from 43 Old Bond Street, but William Grey and his son, F H Grey, also started to trade as William Grey & Son at 41 Old Bond Street. William Moore may also have traded from 43 Old Bond Street as William Moore & Co. Between 1854 and 1859 the firm of William Moore and William Grey, like William Moore & Co, were appointed gunmakers to Prince Albert.

By 1859 in Birmingham, Moore & Harris had expanded into barrel and lock making and in 1861 they moved to the Great Western Gun Works at 91 Constitution Hill.

In 1861 Frederick Beesley was apprenticed to William Grey at William Moore & Co at 43 Old Bond Street.

In 1862 the partnership of William Moore and William Harris exhibited military and sporting guns at the International Exhibition in London.

Between 1862 and 1865 the firm advertised the fact that guns not made by them were being engraved with the name Wm Moore & Co, London.

In 1864, perhaps because of temporary financial problems or because William Moore died (no date is known), the business at the Great Western Gun Works at 91 Constitution Hill was sold at auction; the buyers were a partnership composed of "Moore and Harris" and a Mr Richards. The Moore could have been William Moore or his wife, or William Moore Jnr (?), Mr Richards was probably Westley Richards.

However, the new partnership closed within a year and the business was sold to W & C Scott & Son who valued the firm's USA export market. The firm of Moore & Harris, perhaps now owned by William Harris, probably moved to London, they were known to have been trading in 1867 from 2 Long Acre, London. When they ceased trading is not known, but it may have been prior to 1870 or even up to 1877.

In 1866 Henry Atkin moved from Purdey to work for the firm, he founded his own business in 1877.

In 1867 F H Grey, who by this time had probably taken over from his father, patented internal strikers on hammer guns (No. 2743).

In about 1873 the name of the Moore & Grey partnership may have temporarily changed to William Moore, Grey & Co. In 1878 the firm became a limited liability company, William Moore & Grey Ltd but in 1889 it reverted to unlimited liability.

In 1893, when the Inanimate Bird Shooting Association was formed, a "Mr Harris of Moore & Grey" attended. Apparently, he ran the Wealdstone Gun Club which was based at Harrow.

At some time prior to 1896 the firm registered a patent (No. 18582) for an automatic safety.

In 1896 the firm moved to 165 Piccadilly and in 1902 to 8 Craven Street, Strand. In about 1897 they opened a branch at 11 The Arcade, Aldershot; Aldershot was and still is the "home" of the British army. It appears that, in common with other gunmakers at the time, the firm's sales did not warrant in-house gunmaking facilities, and that they were buying guns from Cogswell & Harrison.

In 1908 Cogswell & Harrison took over the firm, and Robert Grey joined them. This was probably when the Aldershot branch closed.

In 1917 Cogswell & Harrison moved the company to their own premises at 226 Strand and William Moore & Grey ceased to trade under their own name.

In 1928 Robert Grey died, also in that year Cogswell & Harrison left the Strand and operated only from 168 Piccadilly. They later included a "Moorgrey" model in their range of guns, this was a low priced model which was never very popular.

_________________
Pete
Damascus-Barrels


Last edited by PeterMi on Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Wm Moore & Co 12 Gauge
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:25 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:14 pm
Posts: 3
Thanks a lot Pete.

Is there any way I could find some of the old records. And just wondering where this info is from, so I could see it to. Also at which year do you believe my gun was made then.




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