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 Post subject: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:42 pm 
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I am in need of help identifying an old shotgun. The .410 caliber percussion has a maker's mark that would indicate it was made in London sometime after 1610. The shotgun was my father's first shotgun that was given to him by an uncle. I do not wish to sell it, but I would like to know its history. The gun must have gotten Dad off to a good start, because back in the 50's he won the Grand American at Vandallia, Ohio.
I posted photos of the weapon and its parts on my web gallery at: http://gallery.me.com/williamclight#100766&bgcolor=black&view=grid
This is the most crude gun I ever have disassembled. The screws seem to be hand manufactured as does every other part. The trigger guard and trigger itself are held into position by tapered, flat metal pins.
Dad always referred to the gun as the "Rye-Straw", but I can find no record of any gun being called this name. I do know that at one time plain, old blackpowder was modified with charred rye straw to give it some extra punch. Perhaps this particular steel-barrell gun (not Damascus steel) was designed to withstand the higher pressures of the rye-straw mix, but this only is a guess,
If anyone has any information, I sure would like to learn more about the gun.

Thanks




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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:51 pm 
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viewtopic.php?f=2&t=235783

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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:17 pm 
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OldBill wrote:
The .410 caliber percussion has a maker's mark that would indicate it was made in London sometime after 1610
I guess!
The makers mark and the reference to 1610 is probably when that maker first opened for business....220 years before he could have ever made this gun.
I'm no expert in this realm but I'm fairly certain the gun would have to post date the 1830 introduction of the precussion cap....

Never heard that the addition of more charcoal to a black powder mix would increase any power of the mix....seems like the addition of anything that reduces the percentage of nitrate in the formula would have the effect of weakening it....Don't know, as I said I'm not an expert in the realm of black powder....I'll have to look into it to satisfy my curiosity....

I think Criscokid is right actually, this should really go to the Identification forum...you'd probably get much more expert opinions and advice.....Art

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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:49 pm 
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I am new on the forum and missed the I.D. Forum. Can you tell me how to move the dialog to the I.D. Forum?


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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:54 pm 
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Are you sure its not a rifle? Even if you can't see any rifling, it may be rusted away or be a small caliber smooth bore musket. It may have been used with shot too back in its day.

The .410 round is from around the beginning of the 20th Century, way after that gun.
Maker's marks were/still are often forged on low quality, esentially handmade guns made in remote areas of the world i.e. Pakistan, Afganistan etc, or they could have been applied during importation into Britain later.

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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:26 pm 
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Bill; I'm sorry but I don't know how to move it either.....you could just repost it over there....a double posting certainly isn't the end of the world.....repost it over there on the I.D forum...that's what I'd do.......Art

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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:32 pm 
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Claysmoke27 wrote:
Are you sure its not a rifle? Even if you can't see any rifling, it may be rusted away or be a small caliber smooth bore musket. It may have been used with shot too back in its day.

The .410 round is from around the beginning of the 20th Century, way after that gun.
Maker's marks were/still are often forged on low quality, esentially handmade guns made in remote areas of the world i.e. Pakistan, Afganistan etc, or they could have been applied during importation into Britain later.


I don't think bill ment that it was for a .410 shell.....he ment it is .410" caliber....the dimension of the smooth bore........I'd think.....Art

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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 8:28 pm 
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Yes, of course. It was silly of me to refer to the .410 cartridge.
I bet that gun was made for a ball.

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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:05 pm 
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The wall thickness of the barrel is not thick enough to be used as a rifle. The actual measured diameter at the very end of the barrel is 0.428", but for all intents, it probably is the forerunner of the modern .410 caliber. The funny thing about this shotgun is that the fit on all the parts is so sloppy that you probably could bury this thing in mud and it still would shoot. Perhaps the grandfather of Kalashnikov (AK47 designer) had something to do with its design. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:59 am 
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The gun was made in Belguim. It has black powder proof marks.
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_All_Proofmarks.html

The gun has the maker's mark of Henri Lochet (LH)
http://damascus-barrels.com/Belgian_Trade_Marks.html

Henri Lochet was recorded in 1907, Chaudfontaine. Chaudfontaine (Hot Springs in English) is a village between Liege and Nessonvaux. It has an ancient history of barrel making. The gun was most likely made for the African trade. The Belgians controlled the Congo during this period. A good many products were made to be sold there. There are still strong connections between Belgium and the contemporary nations of the Republic of the Congo and Zaire.

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 Post subject: Re: Antique .410 Percussion Shotgun
PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:57 pm 
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Thanks so much PeterMi. This gives me a big step up in my research.




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