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 Post subject: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:04 pm 
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Have always been a remington fan but have a chance to pick up a Winchester 140 semi on a good trade. Do you think a winchester 140 will hold up to shooting a min of 100 rounds a weekend on skeet?




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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:29 pm 
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No reason why it wouldn't hold up. Shouldn't be too expensive a gun to try out. What are you looking to pay for it?

100 rounds a week isn't so heavy as to be considered heavy duty. What the heck, give it a try.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:43 pm 
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No. Don't do it. Anything else you could trade for a Model 140 would be worth more than the cheapest built automatic shotgun that Winchester or anybody else ever built.

These things were designed to catch buyers. They look good, they handle well, and the ones I've had shot very well and didn't kick much at all. But inside, every single part that doesn't have to do with safety is designed as cheaply,,,, as cheaply down beyond a penny and into mills,,,as they could be made and still function. All shotguns will wear out parts and break parts, and the 1200/1400 was no exception, and they'll do it quicker than they should. And, nobody has made any new parts in the last five years, nobody is very likely to ever make any parts for these turkeys, and even if you do succeed in getting a new part it's the same "cost engineered" junk that broke or wore out early in the first place.

The saddest, cheapest, Maverick 88 by Mossberg was made with more honest regard for the customer than the slickest Model 1500 Winchester XTR. :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Listen to super X one. He knows what he is talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:04 am 
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Just as i thought, looks nice and feels great but cheaply made. thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:17 am 
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Had one once. Was fine for a hunting gun, but went into self destruct mode when I started shooting sporting clays.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:33 am 
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Our family has a 1400, my father-in-laws old auto, works like the day in was new, probably 1968 or 1969. We only use it for hunting each season, never replaced a part, don't know how it would do for clays though.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Fri Feb 04, 2011 4:44 pm 
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[Do you think a winchester 140 will hold up to shooting a min of 100 rounds a weekend on skeet?

Yep - You might even get as many as 3 or 4 weekends out of one. :mrgreen:

.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:53 pm 
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I've had my model 140 for about 5-6 years and it has been a great gun. Shot anything from dove to duck and never let me down. As long as you clean it and take care of it it should last you a long time


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:50 am 
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These do get a bad rap. I will say the one I had was the softest shooting semi I have ever shot.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:51 pm 
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Amen to that easy kicking part, Rogmatt. The awful shame of the Model 1400 was that it was such a brilliant design, before the bean counters had them go back again and again and again to shave pennies and mills off the cost.

I keep talking about "mills" when I discuss a Model 1400. A mill is one millionth of a dollar, and there are 100 mills to a penny. When a product is engineered in a modern factory, the makers know their cost down to the last mill. They all do this, and there's really nothing wrong with the idea, but the problem comes in when the makers engineer the product to a certain quality standard, then try and shave another mill or two from the price, then another,,,,and finally they get a product that looks good, it's safe, and it will last for just long enough to hopefully make the customer happy.

It's not a problem when that design philosophy of "down to the last mill" is used to manufacture beer cans and disposable cigarette lighters. It's bad when it's applied to automobiles, such as the Chevrolet Vega, or to guns, such as the Model 1200/1400 series. Then it produces a sort of counterfeit product, one that looks good, but the looks are intended to deceive the customer into thinking he's buying something a lot better than it appears.

You want a gun to be built like an old Belgian Browning, or a Model 12 Winchester, or an Ithaca 37. Every part in one of those was built quite a bit better than it needed to be built. It's the opposite design philosophy, one that puts quality where you can't see it,,,on the inside,,,to as great a concern as what the customer can see when they purchase the product.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:00 pm 
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It is worth more as parts than as a whole. You might be ok a $100. if you are willing to part it out at some point in the future. Just don't invest in one with a poor finish on the metal or wood, or one with a cut barrel or corn cob choke device.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:00 pm 
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Oldfarmer wrote:
It is worth more as parts than as a whole. You might be ok a $100. if you are willing to part it out at some point in the future. Just don't invest in one with a poor finish on the metal or wood, or one with a cut barrel or corn cob choke device.

Straight to the point truth written here ^ by Oldfarmer.

Now contrary to what SuperXOne would lead you to think, the Winchester model 140 or 1400 (nor the model 1200 pump action) will not just melt away while holding it in your hands. They were not built with the quality that the Winchester SX-1 semi auto shotgun was but that doesn't make them bad shotguns. Parts can be found for them if you look. There are Mag. tube throats, firing pins, wood, and other parts offered for them on Flea-bay. My Win. model 1200 has shot countless rounds every weekend since the 1960's and I've never had to replace anything on it. It may quit on me with the very next round I try to fire in it but maybe not, who knows? I've never seen a make or model that has never broken or worn out parts. If they ever do build one I'll buy it.


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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Check your math on mils there SuperX.
The Winchester 1200 and 1400 series of guns were generally considered to be bad. Period. All the testimonials otherwise in the world won't change that. When they first came out, they sold well because they were cheap. Word spread, they went away.

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 Post subject: Re: Winchester 140
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:36 pm 
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A few points about the 1200/1400. The 1200 series (followed by the 1300) was by far and away the best selling and most successful pump shotgun Winchester ever marketed, including the famous Model 12. They made those turds right up until the day they closed the doors in New Haven in 2005, as I recall over three million of them in total. The 1400 series was also the most successful semi auto that Winchester ever made, and I forget the numbers sold, but it was many times the number of Model 50's, which came in a distant second. They made them for thirty years, stopping sometime about 1994, probably because the guns would not sell in 2 3/4 inch configuration.

It's a brilliant design in a lot of ways. The rotating bolt can be argued to be the basis for the later Benelli system shotguns. I've never seen one break a bolt, and that's the heart of the safety of a shotgun,,,but not the durability. Remington made 870s and 1100s with some common design features, but when Winchester tried the same thing, nobody loved Winchester for it. Cutting costs on a shotgun isn't always, every time, without fail a bad thing, but Winchester simply overdid the cost cutting.

Before they break a part, the 1200/1400 series were very reliable. They just weren't durable like an SX1, or even an Remington Model 1100. I've read somewhere the design life of a 1200/1400 was ten thousand shots, and for the Remington 1100 only 30,000 shots. Browning and Winchester both used to advertise that Superposeds, Auto Fives, and Model 12's were good for over three hundred thousand shots.

To Winchester's defense, in 1964 those cheapo parts were available from Winchester and the world was full of gunsmiths compared to today. I would safely bet that the average shotgun owner buys a brand new shotgun for hunting and occasional use on backyard clay targets, and he's not a reloader, and he'll average about four boxes of shells a year, and hardly ever shoot ten boxes a year, of the cheapest "promo" shells he can find to buy. Even at 250 shells a year, it it will take him a lifetime to shoot ten thousand shots.

A target shooter will shoot ten thousand shots by the middle of the summer the first year. And,I think there is something that's extra hard on shotguns when shooting twenty five shots at a rapid pace, as opposed to spacing out the shots. It's sort of like taxi duty on a car.

You can still buy parts for the guns, but they haven't made any new parts in about eight years now, and likely there won't any aftermarket suppliers ever made any. The plastic mag throat on one might be almost fifty years old by now, and it's a trick to put one in, and you need the serial number to order a lot of parts, because of changes made over production runs. It's a bad, bad deal.

But Winchester wasn't making any money from making the most labor intensive shotguns on the mass market by 1964. Something had to give.

The shame is that Winchester didn't somehow get the same cost cutting done as well as Remington cut costs. But Remington did it earlier, they made sure that the new designs actually had some improvements instead of only being cheaper to make, and they didn't seem to make their cheap stamped parts quite as cheap as Winchester made their cheap parts. In any event, the world has turned upside down, now Remington has the better reputation and there aren't any "real" Winchester shotguns on the market. There are Winchester shotguns on the market, true,,,,but those new Winchester shotguns have as much in common with the "real" Winchesters as those Elgin watches sold at Walmart have in common with a B.W. Raymond #571 21 jewel Elgin railroad watch. They both say Elgin, but the new ones don't count.:)




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