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 Post subject: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:39 pm
Posts: 4
Opinions on these weapons please. Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2003 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 7:28 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Ohio
FWIW, GordonSetter likes his Saiga...
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=2427


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2003 9:04 pm 
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Location: Grand Prairie, Texas
familyguy45 wrote:
FWIW, GordonSetter likes his Saiga...
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=2427


The Saiga is an intriguing shotgun and has a lot of appeal as a collectors item or just for an amusing change from guns better suited for sporting purposes. However, the biggest drawback of the gun is related to its magazine. Removing that big box to reload two shells after each pair on a sporting clays course or skeet range would be time consuming and clumsy, or so it seems.

Also, how do you make the gun legal for hunting migratory birds? Are there 2 shot magazines available for the Saiga?

Just my two-hundredths of the Almighty Dollar's worth.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 2:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 7:28 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Ohio
I wasn't really making a judgment call on the Saiga.... just referring the fellow to the one person I know of who has one. Personally, I think it's kind of a neat gun... it's definitely different, if nothing else.
I doubt that America's trapshooters and hunters are even a consideration for Saiga when it comes to marketing this shotgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:11 pm 
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familyguy45 wrote:
I wasn't really making a judgment call on the Saiga.... just referring the fellow to the one person I know of who has one. Personally, I think it's kind of a neat gun... it's definitely different, if nothing else.
I doubt that America's trapshooters and hunters are even a consideration for Saiga when it comes to marketing this shotgun.


Familyguy,

I'm agreeing with you about it being a neat gun. It would be a hoot to take it on a rabbit hunt, or to shoot clays in an informal (non-club or public range) environment.

The lack of a lock-back feature would necessitate some kind of device shoved into the ejection opening to lock back the bolt, because folks get nervous at ranges when guns have closed actions.

Be that as it may, it is a unique scattergun.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2003 6:27 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 23, 2003 7:28 pm
Posts: 55
Location: Ohio
Yeah, I'm with you. 8) The lack of a bolt hold-open (in true AK-47 fashion) is a negative to me as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2003 2:28 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:58 pm
Posts: 1011
Location: Green Bay WI
Yes I like my Saiga! No I would not bet my life on it!
The clip takes practice without that bolt hold open and under pressure it would be even harder! Also I have never been one to put faith in semi autos to protect my family. I bought the Saiga for a fun gun and something goofey on the trap line and in the field. My HD guns are still a pump and revolver.

soreshoulder:
Once you get used to the whole load the shells in and put the clip thing in is is not that bad on the clays course (not life/death presure). I can reload just a hair slower that I can for an O/U. I have shot trap, 5 stand and sporting clays with it. Pheasent beware!

Yes you can get 2 shot clips for $25

Siaga-12.com sells a bolt hold open add on or you can "noch" the safety to get that job done.

I bring that sucker right up the the trap line every Monday now. It is a blast to shoot and get the funny looks. But like I've said before, not for everyone.

_________________
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http://www.huntingpups.com


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:25 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:39 pm
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Thank you for the input.....I'm mostly interested in home defense....I've spoke with some folks about the Siaga and until now...the only concern I heard was the availabilty of parts should repair be needed. I am partial to the Siaga as opposed to the M9200A1 because of the clip feed and the perceived ability to reload quickly. However, I've gotten no responses to the inquirey regarding the M9200. I don't hunt so I guess the only concern I have as to clip capicity is how much 00 buck can I load in this thing? If I'm not mistaken the M9200 holds 6? Plus one in the tube. Reliability becomes an issue though. So you wouldn't bet your life on this weapon? What is the majority opinion as to the best 12 ga, for home defense? Semi auto prefered. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:58 pm
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Location: Green Bay WI
I have been thinking about this a bit since my first post. The Saiga can be loaded quickly if you learn to do it right. I know for me I could do it. I waited for my turn on the trap line before I put the clip in. That added some stress as I didn't want to piss off my team, but they are laid back and I was fast enough, and no body was shooting at me. The fact that you can have many clips loaded and ready really adds to the apeal of the gun, but you will need to practice this in the dark and when you tired. If you can get it down it is a great way to go, but you need to put time in with the gun. I have never been a fan of using an auto as a defence weapon, but the AK action is war tested so it sould hold up just fine in a home. I guess of all the semi aout actions I've seen this is the one I would trust the most, simple, effective, easy to maintain, forgiving and solid. I have a HD shotgun, and a revolver. I recomend having a good backup gun just in case. I guess the long and short of it is if you want put the effort in to learn the gun and it's operation becomes second nature to you, get it, learn it, love it.
As far as parts for the gun fear not! The gun is 80% AK-47 so the operation and parts are familar to any gunsmith. There are also at least 4 sites on the net that sell parts for the gun and many dealers can order them. From owning mine I can not see needing much accept for a few clips (5 shot or 2 shot @ $25 plus shipping). There are no rubber o-rings to ware and the moving parts are all strong as superman.
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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:23 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Michigan
familyguy45 wrote:
Yeah, I'm with you. 8) The lack of a bolt hold-open (in true AK-47 fashion) is a negative to me as well.


actually, the Saiga's listed in the current shotgun news for $229 do have a lock open bolt! Just some info for you fellas!


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 8:12 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:58 pm
Posts: 1011
Location: Green Bay WI
You can also buy the bolt hold open part after market for $30. The problem is it is just a hold open and not an auto hold open. This means you have to lock the bolt back manually and it will not hold back on the last shot. Check out Saiga-12 for all the details on the bolt hold open. Oh and the gun only has the hold open if it says so. The hold open is only put on a small amount of guns at the factory.

_________________
Let the dog hunt the bird, You hunt the dog!

http://www.huntingpups.com


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 9:23 pm
Posts: 30
Location: Michigan
Hello! I was just putting up the info, as I happned to be flipping through shotgun news when I read this thread. You're right, not all the saiga's come with this feature. CDNN lists just one, the 12 gauge HD 19" barreled one with raised sight rib & bolt hold open.... at $269 wholesale.

I agree... I'm sure thats not an automatic one... but, with my local gun store prices running $260's+ for one new in the box, I assume the features are limited to basic ruggedness.

The only down side I can see to this are the mags. With other brands of shotguns, pump, auto & lever action being "capable" of holding alot more ammo... whats the point of a 5 shot mag? If they made the mags inexpensive... I wouldn't complain... but at $23.99 plus shipping a pop... for a plastic 5 round mag.... i honestly think you'd be better off to buy a Lanber semi auto 12 gauge, which will do anything the AK will, plus have the auto bolt hold open, beautiful lines & finish... engraving... hi polish blue... 5 shot capacity... and is priced cheaper than the Saiga at $199 at CDNN versus the saiga at $219 (basic) to $269 for the "hold open" version.

Also, no offense intended, as we all have our own personal tastes... but after spending the money to buy the saiga.... the extra mags... the hold open kit... plus shipping or sales tax.... you've basically spent about $400.... putting you in the same catagory as some very high quality shotguns which hold more rounds in the tube, and offer better value & resale worth than the saiga.

Here are some of the guns you "could" buy instead of a saiga & assorted extra accessories, for the same ballpark price:

Lanber semi auto's, European made, $199 to $259

M97 norinco trench / cowboy pump

Stoeger M2000 semi auto, made by benelli ($349 gunbroker)

HK Gold Lion Mark II fabarms... semi auto... ported... 5 chokes, factory HK case, gorgeous wood!! new in box $350 to $425 on gunbroker.

Charles Daly semi autos
Benelli Nova pump

plus the countless entry level guns from Winchester, browning, remington... and the high quality semi auto's from mossberg.

My contention isn't to belittle the Saiga... I think they're great guns. But, for the lack of features.... and the capacity of rounds.... and the price of needed accessories to bring them "on par" with other brands... the cost savings just aren't there... even at CDNN shotgun news wholesale pricing.


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:17 am 
i was thinking of buying the EAA|Izhmash 20-guage saiga, but after reading some of the comments here, im not so sure. First thing is first, i do not like the idea of plastic mags. Are there steel ones for sale, and can you buy them bigger than 5 rounds? any other feedback on this gun would be appriciated


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 1:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 am
Posts: 2812
GordonSetter wrote:

Siaga-12.com sells a bolt hold open add on or you can "noch" the safety to get that job done.

i dont know if you've seen it, but a member of those boards has created an internal bolt hold open that automaticaly locks the bolt back after the last shot is fired. i'll post a link in a little while


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 2:37 pm 
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The Saiga I got was a bit of a lemon, it wouldn't function with light loads. Heavy loads operated the action properly every time. It may have been a dirty gas system causing the problem, though, and I haven't had a chance to take it out and shoot it a second time, so perhaps it will now function with light loads. If it doesn't, then EAA fixes things like that with no hassles, except for talking to their butt customer service department. That part is irrelevant for self defense (for me) since I don't keep it loaded with light loads. The lack of a last shot bolt hold open is a problem given how hard it is to insert a fully loaded magazine on a closed bolt. I'd have no reservations over using it for self defense, but then I doubt that most self defense instances allow the opportunity to for reloading anyway. What you've start with in your firearm is all you get.

The twenties are less expensive than the twelves, but they're both still less expensive than going with a Mossberg/Sidewinder system (if you were making the same either/or consideration the OP was).

They don't make metal mags for it AFAIK, but the plastic mags for it are quite sturdy. I wouldn't have any reservations over using it in that aspect, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Thu Mar 18, 2004 5:24 pm 
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As soon as the AWB sunsets, 8 round Saiga mags should be avalable. Even without a bolt hold open, you can still reload a Saiga faster that a tube fed. Plus, once the AWB goes away,a few US made parts, a little elbow grease and....
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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:21 am
Posts: 2812
Grizzlywinmag wrote:
The Saiga I got was a bit of a lemon, it wouldn't function with light loads. Heavy loads operated the action properly every time. It may have been a dirty gas system causing the problem, though, and I haven't had a chance to take it out and shoot it a second time, so perhaps it will now function with light loads. If it doesn't, then EAA fixes things like that with no hassles, except for talking to their butt customer service department. That part is irrelevant for self defense (for me) since I don't keep it loaded with light loads. The lack of a last shot bolt hold open is a problem given how hard it is to insert a fully loaded magazine on a closed bolt. I'd have no reservations over using it for self defense, but then I doubt that most self defense instances allow the opportunity to for reloading anyway. What you've start with in your firearm is all you get.

The twenties are less expensive than the twelves, but they're both still less expensive than going with a Mossberg/Sidewinder system (if you were making the same either/or consideration the OP was).

They don't make metal mags for it AFAIK, but the plastic mags for it are quite sturdy. I wouldn't have any reservations over using it in that aspect, either.
have you tried adjusting your gas setting. one setting is for light loads while the other is for magnums


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:16 am 
Grizzlywinmag wrote:
The Saiga I got was a bit of a lemon, it wouldn't function with light loads. Heavy loads operated the action properly every time. It may have been a dirty gas system causing the problem, though, and I haven't had a chance to take it out and shoot it a second time, so perhaps it will now function with light loads. If it doesn't, then EAA fixes things like that with no hassles, except for talking to their butt customer service department. That part is irrelevant for self defense (for me) since I don't keep it loaded with light loads. The lack of a last shot bolt hold open is a problem given how hard it is to insert a fully loaded magazine on a closed bolt. I'd have no reservations over using it for self defense, but then I doubt that most self defense instances allow the opportunity to for reloading anyway. What you've start with in your firearm is all you get.

The twenties are less expensive than the twelves, but they're both still less expensive than going with a Mossberg/Sidewinder system (if you were making the same either/or consideration the OP was).

They don't make metal mags for it AFAIK, but the plastic mags for it are quite sturdy. I wouldn't have any reservations over using it in that aspect, either.





thanx for the input grizzley, is it really that much of a pain to reload with a closed bolt? Is there an easy way to get the hold open installed? maybe by a dealer or something? also where is the best place to buy mags for the 20 guage. I really like the look of this gun, but i want something that is going to function right and not give me any problems. I would like to use it for clay shooting, ya know, draw the stares, plus i would need prolley 5-10 mags, thanx


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:47 am 
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chips wrote:
have you tried adjusting your gas setting. one setting is for light loads while the other is for magnums


Of course. Interesting story, though, the manual that came with my Saiga has the wrong settings listed. I checked out the online manual, and it was opposite what mine had for magnum/light loads. I called up EAA tech support and they confirmed that mine listed incorrect information. Side note, but the guy on the line was also an butt about it. I've only called up EAA tech support twice in my life and both times the customer service guys were ruder than you'd expect someone with that job to be.

Anyway, it might have been that there was unnatural gunk in the gas system; I noticed some charcoal lookin' crap sitting behind the gas regulator when I cleaned it. I reamed out the ports really well with a pipe cleaner, but haven't had an opportunity to shoot it again. After the 27th I'll know for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Saiga Semi Auto Clip Feed or Mosssberg M9200A1
PostPosted: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:53 am 
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The Jersey Devil wrote:
thanx for the input grizzley, is it really that much of a pain to reload with a closed bolt?


It is until you get the hang of it.

Quote:
Is there an easy way to get the hold open installed? maybe by a dealer or something?


I'm guessing this won't be an issue on newer models since they'll come standard with the manual hold open.


Quote:
also where is the best place to buy mags for the 20 guage.


cdnn.com has them. A web search should turn up more. saiga-12.com forums would be another resource for information.

EDIT: Sorry, that's http://www.cdnninvestments.com/.


Last edited by Grizzlywinmag on Fri Mar 19, 2004 5:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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