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 Post subject: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:12 pm
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Location: Hampshire, UK.
Dear Forum,

Greetings from the UK.

I'm thinking of acquiring one or two Chiappa 1887 lever-action shotguns. However, I've never actually *seen* or handled one and would value the opinion of the forum. Basically, "Are they any good?".

What I'd *like* is a 20" barrel on a 6-shot and a 24" barrel on a 2-shot. It does seem, though, that I'd only be able to have a 22" 6-shot and that they don't do the longer barrel in the 2-shot. Is that right?

Any other opinions, ideas, suggestions and anecdotes will be gratefully received.

Thanks.

Regards,

Mark.

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 Post subject: Re: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:38 pm 
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What do you want to do with it?

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 Post subject: Re: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:37 pm 
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Hello, Barry.

BarryD wrote:
What do you want to do with it?

Clay bustin' and PSG. Basically, something a little different to play with to break the monotony of the boring guns seen at clay shoots (usually, under-and-overs with the odd semi-auto or two) and PSG (any number of Benelli M2s, Saiga 12s).

Right now, I'm using an Ithaca M37 DSPS for both sports. I'm not *that* competitive although, of course, it's nice to get *better* at it.

I like the idea of a lever-action shotgun. (Also, in the UK, barrel length restrictions do *not* apply to lever-action shotguns; at least, not to Section 1 shotguns. I don't like long guns...)

I was hoping that someone could tell me how good they are - as I said, they're pretty rare in the UK and I've yet to see one. (Having said that, the M37 is pretty unusual as well and the only two that I've seen are both mine.) I see that Chiappa provide a "lifetime" warranty but I don't know if that applies to the UK.

Thanks for your reply.

Regards,

Mark.

P.S. I wouldn't mind having a go at "Western Shooting", if I can find somewhere that does it in the Southampton area.

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 Post subject: Re: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 1:43 pm 
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The 1887 is a rather heavy, oddly-balanced gun, with no barrel rib. There are also good reasons that the pump action replaced it soon after it was introduced (Model 1893). It's a neat curiosity, but I am not sure I'd want it for any sort of competition. Others may differ.

The reason for these "boring" shotguns is that they actually work for the purpose.

But... There's nothing wrong with a fun toy. How short of a barrel can you have on it, out of curiosity?

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 Post subject: Re: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 1:59 pm 
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Dear Barry,

BarryD wrote:
The 1887 is a rather heavy, oddly-balanced gun
Shame...
Quote:
with no barrel rib.
That doesn't bother me.
Quote:
There are also good reasons that the pump action replaced it soon after it was introduced (Model 1893).
Care to expand upon that?
Quote:
It's a neat curiosity
That's what *I* thought.
Quote:
I am not sure I'd want it for any sort of competition.
Indeed. As I said, I don't expect to *win* anything - I just wanted to be "different". (Subconciously saying "Look at me! Look at *me*!", no doubt.)
Quote:
The reason for these "boring" shotguns is that they actually work for the purpose.
Again, "indeed". However, I'm *still* going to stick to my M37 DSPS shotties.
Quote:
There's nothing wrong with a fun toy.
Woo, hoo!
Quote:
How short of a barrel can you have on it, out of curiosity?
Good question.

I asked my FEO (Firearms Enquiry Officer) about this. He seems to think that I could use a 24" lever-action for clays and keep it on an SGC (Shot Gun Certificate). (The number of guns held on an SGC is not limited. At least, not within reason.) He also says that there's no barrel length limit for a lever-action held on an FAC (Fire Arms Certificate), although there is a minimum length limit of 600mm (two feet) on the whole gun. I would have to really make *sure* that I could a *really* short barrel before purchasing one, of course.

The thing about an FAC is that one has to have "justification" for each gun held and so you can't just acquire as many "fun guns" as you want.

Right now, I have two "slots" on my FAC with an 8-shot M37 DSPS taking up one slot. Hence, the question is, "what to fill the other with?".

I've toyed with the idea of buying a Saiga 12 but I've seen the mags drop out of 'em when fired three times, so far, and at the last comp, a chap had to use his son's pumper to complete the comp after his '12 fell to pieces.

I've also thought of buyin' an M2 because, well, it *wins* everything.

However, as my sig says, I came to shotties relatively late in life (mid-fifties) and so, perhaps, I'd be better off just playing with toys rather than trying to seriously compete with the "young'uns".

Thanks for your reply.

Regards,

Mark.

P.S. I've instilled my postman - the "Wessex Pigeon Murderer" (Blackadder reference) - with the desire to acquire a '1887 reproduction. Right now, I'm investigating the Chiappa clones and *he's* looking at the Norinco.

P.P.S. Love your sig, by the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Mon Mar 21, 2011 2:23 pm 
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There are a few factors that limit the 1887 for high speed shooting.

See these two slow-motion videos, one of the 1887, and one of the 1897, which was the smokeless-powder version of the 1893 that replaced it.

1887:
Image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaUHjOOWXBY

1897 (jump to 0:49):
Image
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBRHdsywDqw

The 1887 has a HUGE amount of drop. That turns the gun into a lever when it recoils. This is easily seen in slow motion, where the gun pivots hard and up. Then the shooter has to work the lever, which yanks the gun down around the same axis. All that wrenching around makes rapid firing difficult relative to other designs. A pump gun (IMO your 37 is about the best example ever made, when it comes to handling and balance) can be operated relatively naturally with some practice, so that as the gun settles back from recoil, the shooter can smoothly "shuck" it and swing to the next target.

Ithaca 37
Image

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 Post subject: Re: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:12 pm 
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BarryD wrote:
See these two slow-motion videos
I'll have to visit the library to see those. (No broadband, see?)
Quote:
A pump gun (IMO your 37 is about the best example ever made, when it comes to handling and balance) can be operated relatively naturally with some practice, so that as the gun settles back from recoil, the shooter can smoothly "shuck" it and swing to the next target.
It has been said by others that my M37s have a harsh recoil but, during a PSG stage, I don't really notice it. A couple of others have had a go with the M37 but I've yet to find someone who prefers it to their *own* gun.

I had a friend make an HD video of me and a shootin' buddy shooting mano-a-mano with my two Ithacas. The first thing that I noticed was that he racked the action *much* faster than me after a shot; I still have the nasty habit of concentrating on whether the shot connected with the target rather than getting ready for the *next* shot.

Re the Winchesters: I've been in contact with gun dealers and the Chiappa is twice as expensive as the Norinco - 1200 pounds versus 600... (Eeek!) However, I really like the fact that the Chiappa comes with three chokes and that - as far as I'm aware - one can buy an adapter that turns a normal 6-shot into a Fast Load version.

You only live once - I may very well just "rush out" and buy a Chiappa...

Regards,

Mark.

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 Post subject: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:50 pm
Posts: 20
I own a Marlin 410 XLR lever action that is definitely a fun toy. Of course it's a 410 and I'm not sure it's the answer to your question but it can be fun to shoot and gets a neat response once in awhile.


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 Post subject: Re: Chiappa 1887 Lever-Action Shotguns
PostPosted: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:50 am 
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Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 5:12 pm
Posts: 104
Hi
The pump action set up is a much better design than the lever both the chippa and the Norinco are copys of the original winchester design which had problems from the start.
Unfortanatly I am in Australia and with a misguided law that has banned pump action shotguns but not lever actions.(thats how stupid the law makers are).
The main atraction of a high mag shotgun in Australia is mainly for feral pig shooting where fast followup shots are needed both for fire power and safety. The lever dose not have the reliability and some guns will jamb fired cases consistantly where others will work flawlessly .There are gunsmiths that can fine tune the Asian copy to smooth out the rough edges but the pump action still has the edge over the lever. But what can we do downunder.
Most shotgunners/pigshooters will trust a coach gun for the backup shot.


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