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 Post subject: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:01 pm 
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Been looking for some feedbacks and opinions on the Baikal MP220 side by side gun, previously sold as IZH43. Appreciate any feedbacks on the quality, craftsmanship or durability of these guns, since the price seems to be right.




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 Post subject: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:56 pm 
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Junk if you get a good one.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:41 pm 
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I had a Baikal back in the '70s. My first double. Had it for probably 3-4 years. No problems. But I doubt I ran more than 1000 rounds through it. It was heavy for a double and it wasn't "pretty" like a double should be. Kinda wish I still had it as I shot it very well.

Can't offer any personal experience on what comes out of the Baikal factory these days.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:19 pm
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Baikal shotguns, both O/U and SxS field models are firearms that are well made and available at a low price point.

The metal construction is very robust while the wood used is very simple quality Walnut or Beech. Generally, the shotgun barrels are adequately regulated and shoot to POA. Both SxS and O/U (read current production models) are equipped with a mechanical single trigger (a good feature), screw-in chokes (that are also compatible with steel) and a combo of ejector/extractor functionality. FYI, the Rem branded SPR-220 models (now discontinued) were equipped with double triggers.

What may be visibly prominent is the absence of overall fit and finish or the handling qualities of a more expensive shotgun. However, that shouldn't be a surprise given the cost of the firearms.

The shotguns are normally a bit heavier and the actions of new ones are quite stiff and more particularly so in the case of O/U models (its a good thing as well).

Overall, as far as field use is concerned, the Baikal SxS (or O/U) is durable and built well enough to take the abuse and perform satisfactorily.

P.S. It may certainly not be out of place to mention that the Shotgun Opinion Forum at SGW may not always be the appropriate place to ask questions due to the fact that many of the responses generated (and not the product itself) could themselves be termed as junk! Frankly, I would much rather prefer to seek opinions in the various individual forums instead (further down on the web page) where folks actually own/use the firearms/brands etc in question!


Last edited by sharps4570 on Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:34 am 
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Location: Fort Wayne IN
I've had the IZH 43 in 28 gauge for four years....never a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:37 pm 
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sharps4570 wrote:
P.S. It may certainly not be out of place to mention that the Shotgun Opinion Forum at SGW may not always be the appropriate place to ask questions due to the fact that many of the responses generated (and not the product itself) could themselves be termed as junk! Frankly, I would much rather prefer to seek opinions in the various individual forums instead (further down on the web page) where folks actually own/use the firearms/brands etc in question!


Yes, by all means you'll get a much rosier picture from a forum dedicated to the brand. Of course, the people giving those opinions have already invested their hard-earned coffee money in the POS. They think that broken stocks that can be fixed, guns that open hard, firing pins that break if you look at them funny, and all the other things that go along with owning a Baikal are perfectly acceptable because it was a "heck of a bargain".

They're junk.

Much better options for the money you spend.

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NSCA: 557876; I'm only in "A" class, so WTF do I know?
There is no such thing as hard targets, only targets above our ability. -- Jimmy Muller
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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:19 pm
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marist89 wrote:
sharps4570 wrote:
P.S. It may certainly not be out of place to mention that the Shotgun Opinion Forum at SGW may not always be the appropriate place to ask questions due to the fact that many of the responses generated (and not the product itself) could themselves be termed as junk! Frankly, I would much rather prefer to seek opinions in the various individual forums instead (further down on the web page) where folks actually own/use the firearms/brands etc in question!


Yes, by all means you'll get a much rosier picture from a forum dedicated to the brand. Of course, the people giving those opinions have already invested their hard-earned coffee money in the POS. They think that broken stocks that can be fixed, guns that open hard, firing pins that break if you look at them funny, and all the other things that go along with owning a Baikal are perfectly acceptable because it was a "heck of a bargain".

They're junk.

Much better options for the money you spend.


Investing “hard earned coffee money in the POS” as you so stated sitting atop your high horse - was exactly what I have done and continue to do with an intent to test a variety of brands that I am not familiar with.

Over the past 9 years, I have personally taken the time to purchase and test new Baikals (including SPRs models) - in the form of IZH-27s in 12 and 20, IZH-43 in 12 and 20, IZH 43KH, IZH-153 shotguns, IZH 94 combos and IZ-18 CF rifles. I failed to find any performance and/or durability issues with almost all of those…..here I used the term almost since the shotgun barrel on the IZH-94 MP combo gun (.22/.410) wasn’t regulated that well and I tried 3 different specimens to validate consistency.

How many of those Baikals have you personally acquired and tested so far to render such precious opinion that you chose to dispense with so voluntarily? Or perhaps you had simply lulled yourself into the illusion that as far as you are concerned it isn’t/wasn’t really necessary at all to obtain any firsthand knowledge/experience given an assumed absolute expertise on your part in any/all matters pertinent to every brand of breech loading shotguns in existence! You really need to wake up and broaden your horizon!

Oh, yeah! I do spend some of those nickels and dimes on few other double guns too. The last time I checked there were also 19 double guns standing in the safe – neither of those Russian or Turk made.

If the OP’s question was directed, for example, towards a Mossberg Silver Reserve shotgun, then yes, I would’ve agreed to that product being synonymous with the term junk.

Calling spade a spade is fine where that is fully justified. You have something positive to contribute (with proper justification) then I/We are all ready to pay heed. There are many new enthusiasts visiting these forums who may benefit from any authentic information available here.

Spreading self conjured bullshit is certainly not the way to achieve that goal!


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:07 pm 
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Oh boy, here we go, internet muscles.

I'm glad you got some of the good ones. Most are not as lucky.

For every one you own I've experienced three that have failed.

It's your money, if you want to throw good money after bad, knock yourself out.

The CZ series is a much better option at that price point.

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NSCA: 557876; I'm only in "A" class, so WTF do I know?
There is no such thing as hard targets, only targets above our ability. -- Jimmy Muller
I pray every day for Obama: Psalm 109:8


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:01 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:07 pm
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Ignorance may indeed be bliss.As Will Rogers once said," it's not what he doesn't know that's troubling , it's what he does know, that isn't so, that I have problems with!"[approx]


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:52 pm 
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I don't like the look of them, so not going to invest my money or time in checking them out any farther. With your money and time you can do as you please. That is my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:02 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:19 pm
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marist89 wrote:
Oh boy, here we go, internet muscles.
I'm glad you got some of the good ones. Most are not as lucky.
For every one you own I've experienced three that have failed.
It's your money, if you want to throw good money after bad, knock yourself out.
The CZ series is a much better option at that price point.

Demonstration of some form of obscure bravado over the internet? What the heck for? As it stands, presenting an argument that is actually valid works well enough!

It is quite amusing indeed to note one’s feeble attempts to substantiate an already frail/flawed argument via mere application of a thick coat of unwarranted prejudice. So far, other than the pronounced use of a sole word “junk,” I haven’t heard anything remotely logical and different from you to convince me otherwise!

Oldfarmer wrote:
I don't like the look of them, so not going to invest my money or time in checking them out any farther. With your money and time you can do as you please. That is my opinion.

A fair opinion – it is easy to understand and acknowledge that individual preferences will almost always vary based on numerous variables. At least no blanket terminology such as the word junk was expressed anywhere within your statement. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:16 pm 
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sharps4570 wrote:
Over the past 9 years, I have personally taken the time to purchase and test new Baikal’s (including SPRs models) - in the form of IZH-27s in 12 and 20, IZH-43 in 12 and 20, IZH 43KH, IZH-153 shotguns, IZH 94 combos and IZ-18 CF rifles. I failed to find any performance and/or durability issues with almost all of those…..here I used the term almost since the shotgun barrel on the IZH-94 MP combo gun (.22/.410) wasn’t regulated that well and I tried 3 different specimens to validate consistency.

How many of those Baikals have you personally acquired and tested so far to render such precious opinion that you chose to dispense with so voluntarily? Or perhaps you had simply lulled yourself into the illusion that as far as you are concerned it isn’t/wasn’t really necessary at all to obtain any firsthand knowledge/experience given an assumed absolute expertise on your part in any/all matters pertinent to every brand of breech loading shotguns in existence! You really need to wake up and broaden your horizon!

Oh, yeah! I do spend some of those nickels and dimes on few other double guns too. The last time I checked there were also 19 double guns standing in the safe – neither of those Russian or Turk made.

If the OP’s question was directed, for example, towards a Mossberg Silver Reserve shotgun, then yes, I would’ve agreed to that product being synonymous with the term junk.

Calling spade a spade is fine where that is fully justified. You have something positive to contribute (with proper justification) then I/We are all ready to pay heed. There are many new enthusiasts visiting these forums who may benefit from any authentic information available here.

Spreading self conjured bullshit is certainly not the way to achieve that goal!
Absolutely spot on 4570.

I have a little experience with Baikal firearms myself. Since 2003 I have purchased and frequently used 9 Baikal built shotguns. All these firearms over time have been soundly reliable shooters in the field and range... I also have several friends that own Baikal shotguns/rifles and are soundly satisfied with the reliability of the guns. Practically every gun shop in my S.W. Pa. area carries Baikal firearms. Ask these folks and they will all tell you Baikal built guns are solid firearms for the money. The faulty firing pins claim in this thread is pure 100% bullshit regarding Baikal shotguns… Anyone who is a competent gun smith will tell you Baikal firing pins are very well made with quality steel. So are the barrels and the rest of the steel parts in the guns. Yes, the guns are on the heavy side, are plainly finished and don’t have competition triggers. But none the less are accurate, scatter gun models shoot to point of aim, are well known for reliability and strength of build. IMZ Baikal didn’t become one of the World largest builders and exporters of firearms by selling junk arms. I presently own over 40 firearms and have been a shooter/hunter for over 40+ years. I was shooting Friday night with a gentleman who had a new Browning Citori 16 that broke a bottom barrel firing pin. My new IZH27 16 I've owned for several months now with 1500 rounds fired has given me no problems what so ever. I have many thousands of rounds fired in my other Baikal O/U's with no malfunctions to date. Now I'm not inferring Baikal shotguns are better than Browning or are heavy competition shotguns. But none the less from my experience they are highly reliable shotguns for the money for hunting and casual clay targets.

As mentioned since 2003 I have owned/used 9 Baikal shotguns. I still currently own 5 and the other ones I have parted with are still reliable shooters for my friends.

2-Baikal Semi Autos.
MP153 Syn/28”
MP153 Wood/26”

5-Baikal O/U’s
SPR310-20GA/26”
IZH27 Sporting 12GA/29.5”
IZH27 12GA/28”
IZH27 20GA/28”
IZH27 16GA/28"

1-Baikal S/S
IZH43 20GA/26”

1-Baikal Single Shot
SPR100 Sporting 12GA/29.5”

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Last edited by jds on Sun Jul 03, 2011 12:11 am, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:55 pm 
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Location: Arkansas Delta
marist89 wrote:
Oh boy, here we go, internet muscles.

I'm glad you got some of the good ones. Most are not as lucky.

For every one you own I've experienced three that have failed.

It's your money, if you want to throw good money after bad, knock yourself out.

The CZ series is a much better option at that price point.


If they are as bad as you claim, why have you had 20+ of them?

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:46 am 
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I have tested almost all smooth bored Baikal models starting with the old 54 model boxlock right through their latest semis.

They are tough, no doubt about it. They are also ugly as they come ouf of the box. The wood on most is stained softwood and of questionable shape, ie square section at the grip etc. All of which can be fixed fairly cheaply.

The action of the IZ43 is based on the Winchester Model 21, with coil springs and rebounding hammers. It is a more reliable foundation than the Anson-Deeley with its V springs and non rebounding hammers.

Over the years I have encountered problems with auto ejectors and single triggers on Baikals, but little else. The metal is of decent quality, the heat treatment adequate, the soldered joints done with soft solder and not brazed.

The Birmingham proof house has an OU Baikal they tried to blow up but could not. You can search for the report on the net. That is an objective test of durability by a non commercial entity.It is worth adding here that unlike some others Baikals undergo full CIP proof before export which also includes a test for POI convergence.

For those willing to undergo the expense and customise a SXS or OU, both the IZ43 and the IZ27 can yield amazing shotguns. But that course of action is unlikely in the US with its labor costs.

Recap- tough, reliable, ugly guns, best without automatic systems, worth the money and proven over many years in most parts of the world.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:53 pm 
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I have an IZH 43 in 12 ga. that I bought second-hand and have owned for going on two years now.

I did not buy this gun because it was inexpensive (gun show asking price of $265.00, purchase price of $175.00 OTD in like-new condition.) I bought it because if fit as if bespoke and had all of the features I was looking for, and if I HAD to pay more to get it, I would have done so gladly.

I was attracted to this gun for a host of reasons. I wanted a side-by-side that could handle steel shot and had interchangeable choke tubes. I wanted a gun that fit well "out of the box" rather than going through the process of buying something and then having it altered to fit, and this gun fit me. I wanted a more "American" style double than my previous gun (a Parker Hale by Ugartechea 20 gauge w/ straight grip, splinter forend, and DT / extractors) and the IZH 43 is certainly more that than "English game gun." I really like the open, almost "Prince of Wales" grip feel and semi-beavertail forend, coupled with more lead-sustaining mass, compared to what I shot previously. I feel more in control and more fluid with this than I ever did shooting the more highly regarded Uggie. I would have initially prefered DT / extractors but there are pluses to the SST / selective ejector set-up of my gun, too. The SST on the IZH 43 leaves PLENTY of room for a thickly gloved finger to manipulate the trigger and the selector location at the top of the trigger blade allows for quick reversal of the firing order of the barrells with the gloved trigger finger during the gun mount if I need to go tight/open with choke constiction. The selector blade is big enough to manipulate with thick gloves on.


I didn't want to fret over issues with barrel regulation and I knew enough about how these guns are made to know that I would not have an issue with this. I wanted a gun robust enough to shoot heavy loads for pheasants and wanterfowl and to endure as much trigger time on the sporting clays course as my other obligations allow. The IZH 43 is, by design, a very robust gun. I also like the fact that it has rebounding hammers powered by reliable coil springs, as another poster mentioned.

Knowing that this is not a hand-made gun, I am not disapointed in the fit and finish of mine. It is certainly equal to any Ruger Red Label that I've ever handled in that regard, if not perhaps a little more nicely turned out.

I might be among the few, but I really like the handling dynamics of the IZH 43 a lot. I shoot this gun better than any I've tried thus far.

And I think it looks good, too. The metal is evenly polished and blued. I've seen plainer walnut on guns costing many times what these go for new.

It is the perfect shotgun for the shooting that I do because it does it all for me and I shoot it well. I am not ashamed to admit that I like it much better than the Ugartechea it replaced. I have no reason to believe that I won't get at least the same 25 trouble-free seasons of use out of the IZH 43 that I got from the Ugartechea.


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:31 pm 
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i guess i am the new guy on the block on this one. i have owned a MP220 for a whopping 3 months. i have a grand total of 2 boxes of shells through it. it's a new EAA import with a 2011 seriel number. my opinion of it is that while it is not a diamond in the rough it is at least a ruby in the rough. i think if you were to think of it this way. guns are coming down the assembly line and come to a T in the line. some guns go left to the finishing room where triggers are honed, fine wood is fit and finished, parts are polished and blued to a nice hue. some guns go to the right and go into the packaging room to be packaged and sent out. those guns going to the right are the Baikals. they were started with all the right stuff they just never got finished. one of my theories is that the guns are going to be marketed all over the world in many under developed areas where people have lots of time but very little money. so to them a inexpensive gun that they can finish themselves is better than an expensive gun they will never afford. i wanted an affordable SxS that i could shoot steel shot. i paid $279 for the gun and have about 6 hrs into it cleaning, stoning and polishing parts. it now breaks smoother, easier and locks up tighter than my 311. the triggers still need some work to get a clean 4-5lb break but that is yet to come. the original "i don't know why they call it a recoil pad" is gone and a $30 Limbsaver is in it's place. i figure by the time i am done i will have about $350 in it and have a very solid field gun.


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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:00 pm
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wow nice topic and great info here, that being said, has anyone heard anything about the mossberg silver reserve?? I heard that in 2008 mossberg finally got their act together and got the fingering pin issue, any more news on that??

GreggW

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:50 am 
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Marquette notes: "so to them a inexpensive gun that they can finish themselves is better than an expensive gun they will never afford."

Read more: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=261442#ixzz1SS6LwH3F

very true! In my area we have at least two smiths who rebuild Baikals, both IZ27s and IZ43s. The job is extensive- rib removal on the 27, action polishing, wood reshaping and finishing and lots more. A reworked IZ43 finishes at less than 6 lbs, with breathtaking balance since the bottom rib is removed and the top rib substituted with a swamped one. The total cost works out to about 1500 Euro for a SXS which is far more reliable due to its action type (coil springs), quality steel, than any ready made double at that price.

Can the jobs be done on other cheap doubles? Not if they have brazed barrels, doubtful steel etc. The Baikals are a good foundation for customising.

Over the years I have posted photos of some of these custom jobs for those that want to search them.

It has been said that labor costs in the US are so high that this type of customising is just not worthwhile. On the other hand work like rib removal and action polishing are beyond the capabilities of most amateurs. But even as is the Baikal remains a robust and reliable tool.

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 Post subject: Re: Baikal MP220 / IZH 43 Side by Side
PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 8:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:06 am
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I have owned several Baikals and never had a problem.
One outfitter for bird hunting uses Baikals for loaner shotguns.
Not a lot of money and works well.




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