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 Post subject: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:15 pm
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Just purchased wads designed for the Federal straight walled hulls from "Downrange wads" (DRF3's). I inserted these new wads into a hull and the wad is just as loose as the other wads designed for tapered wall hulls. What gives I thought the wad should hold snug to the base of the shell? What am I missing???




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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:15 pm 
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Downrange makes some good wads, but those DRF3's aren't some of them.

There is another guy on here that has explored this to the nth degree. Those wads just don't fit.

The best wads for Federal hulls are the 12S0, 12S3 and 12S4 that Federal makes, a close second are the Claybuster CB2100-12 (12S0) and CB2118-12 (12S3). There are a few Euro wads like B&P and Gualandi that fit pretty good also.

Wads in straight wall hulls don't need to be snug, but they should fit within .020" give or take. To my knowledge American manufacturers have never made wads for reloading that fit tight in straight wall hulls.

If you want a tight fit go back to the tapered walled hull, and send me all your Federal hulls :wink: :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 9:28 pm 
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Yes this seems to be the case.

Good thing I didn't buy more than $15 worth but Now what do I do with them??? Could I still use them? Granted there's gona be some pressure lost but could I use them to reload my feds??


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:06 pm 
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Personally, I would use them in Federal hulls and just burn them up on the practice field.

If you think you are going to lose pressure (you won't), use them in Rem Gun Clubs. they will be fine in those hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:15 pm
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that was my plan.

then that being said would it be ok for me to use CB1100's or Green Dusters in the TOP GUN FEDS???


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 3:15 am 
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Yup, - the DRF3 just isn't gonna work too well in the straight hulls, - too loose, lip too thick (and non-concentric), too much gas blow-by, too erratic, and chrono numbers (Standard Deviation) all over the map.

As you just found out, the fit in a Federal (Gold Metal) hull looks like this:
Image

The OEM Federal 12S3 fits very well, and performs very well, but they are pricey:
Image

The Claybuster CB-2118 also fits and performs very well, and are pretty affordable:
Image

The Claybuster CB-6100 doesn't fit too bad either, affordable, and performs "Ok":
Image

DRF3 on left compared to: CB-2118 on upper right, and CB-6100 lower right:
Image

Post fired DRF3's in straight-wall hull look like this:
Image
Doesn't appear to me that the powder cup is expanding, flairing out, or even contacting the I.D. of anything, much let alone sealing properly.

CB-2118's in the foreground tells a different story:
Image


Since the powder cup on the DRF3 is the exact same diameter as dr's other tapered wall wads, it is my opinion that you'd be better off using them up in taper'd wall hulls then you would using them in straights-wall hulls.

Personally I like the Gualandi wads, and I think (for me) they have the slight edge since they also have an additional anti-migration sealing ring, and I find myself loading more Rio's than I do Federals:
Image

But as mentioned, I'm fond of the Claybuster CB-2118's, and load a fair share of them too. Haven't loaded OEM 12S3's in a couple years, mainly because the price of them makes them cost prohibitive, and that's really too bad too, because they really are a top-notch wad (as most OEM wads are).

If you'd like to try the Claybuster CB-2118, the Claybuster CB-6100, or the Gualandi GU-1220 (1-1/8th oz), GU-1225 (1-oz), or the GU-1227 (7/8's oz), just shoot me over a PM (Private Message), and I'll send you samples of all of them to try. I'd like to also offer some OEM 12S3's, but I just don't stock them due to cost (haven't yet found a cheap place to buy them).

A green (or blue) duster, albeit not technically the correct wad for this type of hull will work better than the drf3 (dynamic powder cup sealing wise), but you might also have powder migration issues to contend with depending on the powder that you use. I've tested the OEM Remington Fig-8 in 1-1/8th oz in the Federals with surprisingly good results, but again, technically it's still not the correct wad for the hull.

Seriously, - think about the Claybuster CB-2118 (1-1/8th oz), or the CB-2110 (1-oz), they are good performers at bargain prices. Or if you want to try something different, I can tell you that the Gualandi wads are about $107 to your door step (for 5,000), or $10.70/bag. And if you find OEM 12S3's at a reasonable prices, let us know, - I've yet to find a reasonable price on them, - Recob's still listing them at $7/250, $26/1000, $126/5000, that's more expensive than the Gualandi's (and that doesn't even include shipping) :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:56 am 
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I would not use CB1100 -12 or the Green Dusters in those hulls.

Use the actual Federal 12S0's or the Claybuster CB2100-12. I have used and am still using these wads in both the Federal Gold Medal and the Federal Top Gun for well over 10 years. They work.

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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:06 am 
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dogchaser37 wrote:
I would not use CB1100 -12 or the Green Dusters in those hulls.


I've used both in those hulls with success. If that's what you have available, they'll work fine. If you are going to buy dedicated wads for those hulls the Fed 12S0, 12S3 and their clones work.

I've had poor success with RXP12s in those hulls.

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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:56 pm 
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Interesting discussion. I usually don't load less than 1 1/8 oz. in the Fed. hull due to the fact that 1 oz. loads work better in tapered hulls with the wads I have. I have been using the DRXXL 1 1/8 OZ wad & it fits & works fine. I think that is right, it's the blue one. The 1 oz. DR must just be a longer wad. I have no clue what it was designed to work in. I think most any wad will work in a tapered hull but in a straight wall hull, it has to be big enough to prevent powder migration & expand enough to seal the gases. Republicans photoes tell the story.


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:18 pm 
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Include the CB 3118 AR Red wad with those for straight walled hulls. CB designed it for them, unfortunatly I shoot very little 1 1/8 oz loads these days.

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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:15 pm
Posts: 62
REBUBLICAN,

Great Scotts!!! Thats just the info I have been looking for!! thought I was reading the down range data wrong or sumthing.

THANKS!!!
I will look for the Wads mentioned. Reasonable priced of course
Did find that they do fit nicely in my tapered hulls. so they won't go to waste.


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 10:31 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:23 pm
Posts: 65
The reason for the bent wad on the DRF3 is because the wad cup walls are thicker on side then the other making the shell cup go through the barrel at an angle and I'm sure it is by passing some pressure note how much more dirtier they are from burn powder. . I make my own conical bullets for my muzzleloader and I have run into this problem with them. I would bet if you put the gun in a vise it would pattern to one side too. I'm a total newb at shot shell reloading so don't beat me up to bad on this OK.Oh it is the right side of the wad where the marks are that is thicker and it is thinest right above the 2 marks on the left side.
EDIT

Thanks for the heads up on this I was looking for a wad that would fit in the strait wall hulls to load for bunny's and tree rats. I was going to go with 1 1/4 but I would rather stay with 1 once loads. I use to use winchester 1 once #6 shot for squirrel hunting but i use my turkey choke to get the shot way up high in those tree's. It work realy well and saved me a bunch of $$ compaired to the high brass.


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:43 pm 
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anvil,

Please don't take this wrong, but you are a little off base. Those wads will not influence the shot cloud one bit. I have been using them for a long time, no such thing happens.

Federal uses these wads in some of their Premium Paper Target loads, do you really believe that the shot would not hit the correct POI?

Shotguns are not rifles and the reverse is true.8)

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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2011 7:23 pm
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dogchaser37 wrote:
anvil,

Please don't take this wrong, but you are a little off base. Those wads will not influence the shot cloud one bit. I have been using them for a long time, no such thing happens.

Federal uses these wads in some of their Premium Paper Target loads, do you really believe that the shot would not hit the correct POI?

Shotguns are not rifles and the reverse is true.8)


Like i said I'm a Newb to reloading shot shells. But the fact that the wad is bending in the barrel just can't be a good thing and the DR wads are the only ones that have a thickness difference on the edges. I even checked the wads I have on hand and none of them are off like that.Just thought I would put it on the table..


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:58 pm
Posts: 406
Location: Hastings, Nebraska
Hello Folks,

Republican / MM3 / Steve,
The crushed wads that you have a photo of are a softer shooting DRF3 that were made for some folks. But some got out into standard sales.

The wad is made with a "softer" resin so it will crush more that the standard Federal F3. This gave this wad a different perceived recoil feeling.

And yes the wads are safe to shoot.

Folks, I won't be back on here as I'm getting ready to go to the Grand. So if you have any questions about this. PLEASE give me a call at 402-463-3415

Steve, I know you don't like me or the products I make! So I know that you will most likely not believe me anyway. But that what happened. And all I can do is state the truth and go on.

Kevin Lewis @ 402-463-3415

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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:59 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:15 pm
Posts: 62
@#$& I hate to post this BUUUUUTTT here goes.

Kevin,
How come the Samples you give out to your prospective customers arent fitting in the hulls they were requested. I am a new business opportunity for the Down Range MFG Company and have tried these wads I have purchased and they are nothing like the other clones I have tried. I have not been pleased with DownRange Wads. and will not recomend them to the fellas at my club.

THANKS,
Keith Parrish


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:15 pm
Posts: 62
O
I Will not be spending any time at your booth at your Grand... and I will not be making a purchase from DR in my next club order.

Prove to me this delima has been corrected then we can talk business...


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:17 pm 
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In DownRanges defense, they make some excellent wads. The DRA12 Pink, DRXL1 Green and the DR-16 right off the top, are very well done.

It is true that the Federal style wads aren't good for straight wall hulls, but don't throw the baby out with the bath water.

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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:30 pm 
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I will have to use the 1000 (DRF3'S) wads purchased and advertised for my Federal shells, in my Remington Gun Clubs. That says good things about DownRange Wads.

I can't "knock" the other wads from this company for they have not failed me.

I will be waiting for results from Gualandi and CB clones and possibly going to Federal to reload my Federal hulls...


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 Post subject: Re: WADS FOR FEDERAL STRAIGHT WALLED HULLS
PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:37 pm 
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Sometimes I sit here in amazement. It seems that we, as humans, love to take a very simple project, in this case 12 gauge target loads and make it into an overwhelmingly dysfunctional hobby.

Let me put this in perspective. Federal 12S series of wads have been around for at least 35 years. Federal Gold Medal hulls I would guess 30 years. Those components have always fit together perfectly. Regardless of what you may think about this or that powder, wad, primer or hull, there is nothing new under the sun, in 12 gauge target loads, not really.

Most folks act like these are totally new items!!!!!!!! :roll:

What are you waiting for? The Federal wads have been around for a long time. Nothing virgin about this stuff.

The Federal 12S0's, 12S3's and 12S4's and the Claybuster clones fit these applications perfectly.

Alliant and Hodgdon both have good loading data for these wads for decades and they still do.

The thought of waiting around for someone to test these components, for I have no idea what, is very humorous.

Come on guys this is 2011, these components have been around for decades. We are not breaking new ground.

BTW, you get what you pay for.



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Last edited by dogchaser37 on Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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