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 Post subject: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2010 7:36 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Rocky Mount, NC
Have a Zoli 20Ga O/U being Offered on a Trade Deal.
All Input Appreciated
Thanks
Hagen
Hagen442@AOL.COM



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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:42 am
Posts: 114
Do you have a model? Is it Antonio or Angelo? There is a wide variety from crap to great shotguns made by the Zoli's.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:20 pm
Posts: 4479
Location: Pointe Coupee Parish, South La.
jm9x23 is correct in that there is a large difference between the two Zoli's with Antonio's being the far better gun. I have his "Z" Sporting in 20ga. and the new 12ga. Zoli "Bilanx" due in here on Mon. as a replacement for my Bereta DT 10 L.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2484
FWIW, Angelo Zoli built the Weatherby Regency O/U. The Standard Catalog of Firearms lists the value of an Angelo Zoli Savana Deluxe O/U double rifle in 98%+ condition as US$7,000.-. OTOH, I have handled and shot Antonio Zoli O/U's which most members of this forum would probably describe as a POS. As with the Basque gunmakers, many of their counterparts in Val Trompia built guns of varying quality according to the price point established by their importer/distributors. Certainly, both Angelo and Antonio were capable of building quality pieces if the customer so desired and was willing to pay.

DF


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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:51 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:08 pm
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Location: mid west
doppelflinten, you are sorely confused. It is Angelo Zoli that made the CHEAP POS Zoli, most would find CHEAP. Antonio Zoli make the Zoli "Z" gun that few would find "cheap" as it has a boss action! The Z gun is a very nice uplevel gun!!

http://www.showsci.org/docs/static/Auct ... rearms.pdf

The only "savana rifle" I can find reference to, is a Pioti double rifle. If you look down the link you will see an O/U double rifle from ANTONIO ZOLI valued at $40,000!!!!

Again Antonio not Angelo makes the high line guns. Angelo made under lug cheap guns for others and in his own name that sold for under $1K!
Antonio makes well made Boss action O/U!


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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:53 am
Posts: 59
unplugged wrote:
doppelflinten, you are sorely confused. It is Angelo Zoli that made the CHEAP POS Zoli, most would find CHEAP. Antonio Zoli make the Zoli "Z" gun that few would find "cheap" as it has a boss action! The Z gun is a very nice uplevel gun!!

http://www.showsci.org/docs/static/Auct ... rearms.pdf

The only "savana rifle" I can find reference to, is a Pioti double rifle. If you look down the link you will see an O/U double rifle from ANTONIO ZOLI valued at $40,000!!!!

Again Antonio not Angelo makes the high line guns. Angelo made under lug cheap guns for others and in his own name that sold for under $1K!
Antonio makes well made Boss action O/U!


Actually Doppelflinten is right.

American shotgun makers position their guns at a given price point and quality level. This is 20th century business/marketing strategy. In this business / marketing model Chevrolet makes one quality and price point of car and Cadillac makes another. This is what has you brainwashed and confused.

Italian and Spanish shotgun makers do not follow this paradigm. Most of them use old world guild marketing practices. These business practices date back to the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries. A shotgun maker will make guns of all price points and quality levels.

The closest American analogy is in musical instrument makers:

A maker of say Silver flutes will make Silver flutes of multiple quality and price points. A $1,300 Powell/Sonare' (Boston USA) Sterling Silver flute is going to be made quite a bit differently than a $8,800 V.Q. Powell Sterling silver flute. The $1,300 flute is meant for a musician at an intermediate to semi-professional developmental level. The $8,800 flute is meant for a professional musician. The professional flute has a number of refinements that a professional expects from an instrument that will be a) played every day and b) used to make a living.

Another American analogy is guitars. Gibson lists banjos and guitars from under $200 msrp to over $55,000 msrp as stock items. Clearly the quality and care taken to make a $182 Epiphone PR-150 acoustic guitar for a hobbyist will not match the quality and care taken to make a $25,000 Monarch SJ-250 acoustic guitar for a professional. If money is no object Gibson will make a bespoke best-quality guitar for you to ones exact specifications. All will bear the Gibson name.

Most of the Angelo Zoli guns brought into the US were low price point guns. Angelo Zoli also made some very finely made guns for the bespoke best-gun european market.


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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:12 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:20 pm
Posts: 4479
Location: Pointe Coupee Parish, South La.
I have two Zoli Sporting "Z" guns one in 20ga and in 12ga the new Zoli "Bilanx". My Beretta DT 10L has become a safe queen. Then that's just me.


Last edited by fase3 on Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:50 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 7:08 pm
Posts: 2820
Location: mid west
dlsawyer,
What doppelflinten said that is WRONG! Is:
"I have handled and shot Antonio Zoli O/U's which most members of this forum would probably describe as a POS."


Angelo brought in POS $500 dollar guns and sold them under many different names.
I stand by my statement that the ATONIO Zoli Z Guns are a premium gun, and a more than a step ahead of the "B" guns!! Additionally, Antonio makes some very expensive guns as well. Most of Angelo's guns import to the states would fall in the POS description!


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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:14 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Louisville,KY
I got a Zoli Z-sport a few months ago and i think it is the best gun for the money out there!!! :D :D :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2007 5:21 pm
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Location: UK
It's fair to say that doppelflinten is something of an oracle when it comes to the history of Italian & Spanish shotguns but I'm with unplugged on this one. I suspect this was simply an oversight or typo by doppelflinten - something which I seem to do quite often. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:50 pm 
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Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 2:26 pm
Posts: 2484
Ah, perhaps the problem here may be a bit of generation gap. Is there anyone on this forum old enough to remember the Antonio Zoli imports of the 1960's and early 70's?
These were imported by several firms such as American Import of San Francisco and Galef of New York (after they lost the Beretta line which passed to Garcia). If I recall correctly, Sears Roebuck had their name on one or more of Antonio's models.

During the early 70's, two of my friends had 12 gauge Zoli field grades which bore Antonio's Bow & Arrow trademark. I handled and shot both guns. At some 6-1/2 pounds, they were pleasant to carry but, had noticable felt recoil. Both guns had blackened barrels with more ripples than Lake Michigan on a stormy night. They were servicable but, the fit and finish were no better than the low end Spanish guns of the day. They were by no means equal to the quality of the higher end Antonio Zoli Volcano Record SLE models being produced during those same years.

The Stateside importers of those years dictated the price point. The popular Antonio Zoli imports of the era, which my friends had, were inexpensive O/U's employing dual Purdey extensions and a flat tapered crossbolt, no underlugs, no shoulder lumps (as per Beretta SO series), double triggers with heavy pull and extractors. The frame had an unadorned satin chrome (?) finish. The fit and finish of these guns left much to be desired. There was little to distinguish them from the basic low end Guerini Pintossi or Angelo Zoli guns. These Antonio Zoli models were marketed in the States at prices ranging from US$ 179.- in the 1960's to US$ 251.45 in 1974. For comparison, in 1974, a Spanish Laurona Model 71G was US$ 230.-, a Beretta BL-3 was priced at US$ 360.- and a BL-6 at US$ 700.-. A Charles Daly/Miroku field grade O/U carried a list price of US$ 415.-, a basic Franchi Falconet was US$ 379.95 and a Browning Superposed was priced at US$ 420.-. Krieghoff 32 prices started at US$ 895. As is oft times the case, price can be an indication of quality.

As previously stated, the gunmakers of Val Trompia produced guns of varying quality for different markets according to the price point established by their importer/distributors. Antonio Zoli was among them.

DF

Montani Semper Liberi


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 Post subject: Re: Need Input on Zoli Shotguns
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2011 12:32 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:53 am
Posts: 59
Note: Doppelflinten made the above post ~12:50 while I was in the process of writing this one.

I think Doppelflinten is right on this one.

Do not confuse Antonio Zoli's present upscale product line with the totality of Antonio Zoli production. In the past Antonio Zoli made some rather plebian guns and also subcontracted for others with base level "to the trade" models.

If you look at the same time period there were some rather nice Angelo Zoli guns made for the european market in particular.

Antonio Zoli has made some guns back in the day that I consider pretty basic. I have seen a few guns marked Antonio Zoli listed on the Guns America Site and over on Guns International web site such as this one http://www.gunsinternational.com/Antoni ... =100209228. This gun is clearly marked Antonio Zoli with the drawn bow. The gun also has a different shape to the receiver than the Angelo Zoli Condor model. Here is another one:http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/admin/product_details.php?itemID=40835. I am presently researching whether or not Antonio Zoli provided this model to Renato Gamba as this model seems identical to the Mauser Model 71E http://buy.gunauction.com/10572834/maus ... rslike-new. I won this auction on AA and this shotgun is presently in my possession.

One of the guns Angelo Zoli made on contract for American Arms and at least one gun maker in Texas is the Condor Model.

The Early Beretta S-55, Silver Snipe and BL-1 and such were also made by Antonio Zoli. These guns are certainly entry level guns. They are about on a par quality with the Angelo Zoli Condor shotguns or combination guns made under Angelo Zoli's own name and bearing Angelo Zoli's color case hardened receiver and the more deluxe wood.

Angelo Zoli / Zolarmi made the Rottweil 650 for Dynamit Nobel which is the same gun as the Zolarmi St. George Trap. (The company changed its name to 'Zolarmi' after Mr. Angelo Zoli had passed away and the company was taken over by his sons. A few years later(December, 1987) the Bank of Brescia forced the Zolarmi company into bankruptcy and liquidated the assets at auction(1989-1990).)




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